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Joined: Nov 15, 2005 Posts: 100 Location: Cyberspace
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:26 am Post subject:
Nyu's character wasn't meant to mislead the audience and to distract them from the show's contradictions. She was a part of Lucy's personality, the person that she wanted to be. She wanted to start over, to be given another chance. Nyu was a clean slate, the new beginning that Lucy had always wanted for herself.
The show never tried to justify Lucy's actions. It tried to illustrate that she wasn't just a monster, born and bred. She was driven, even without the instinct to kill that she apparently had locked away inside of her. It may not excuse her behavior, but it explained it, giving you an insight that you may not otherwise have had on your own.
Amnesia. Selective memory loss. Trauma. These are facts of reality. They do happen. There are known cases of trauma where individuals have, in fact, lost their memory, sometimes of their entire lives, over a or several traumatic incidences. They block those memories out, and it often takes a lot of time and therapy to bring those horrible memories back to the surface. In many cases, they never come back. Just because you don't believe that it could happen to you doesn't mean it just couldn't happen to anyone. That's a very boxed in view of the world and a proven fallacy.
Kouta is a possible character, albeit a rare and unusual one. It was why he was made such a focal point of the show. Otherwise, the show wouldn't have been as good. There are individuals who can be that forgiving. They even have documented cases, such as women who stick with abusive husbands even if the husband is being tried for the murder of her parents that she knows he's guilty of. People in general can be extremely unreasonable creatures, and so that doesn't rule us out from committing what you might consider unreasonable actions and behaviors.
Now I'll have to admit that I didn't read your whole post at this time (too long), but I'll come back to read the rest later. I just wanted to state that just because one person's actions wouldn't have been your own doesn't mean it couldn't happen at all, or that it hasn't in real life (in different situations, of course, but very comparable). The truth is stranger than fiction.
Not to say that this show doesn't have its holes as all shows and stories outside of reality do, but it's still a very well proportioned series and does a very good job of accomplishing its goal and relaying its message. There wasn't a single character that didn't serve an important purpose, and not a single one of them was meant to act as a distraction of some kind. If you believe that, than the main points of the show went right over your head. They were all used to illustrate some fundamental idea that added to the main idea.
In any case, the show was also meant to be extreme, and extreme shows must have extreme characters. In real life, extreme circumstances call for extreme measures. Black on black, white on white, and the thin line that divides them both.
Nyu's character wasn't meant to mislead the audience and to distract them from the show's contradictions. She was a part of Lucy's personality, the person that she wanted to be. She wanted to start over, to be given another chance. Nyu was a clean slate, the new beginning that Lucy had always wanted for herself.
I must disagree with the highlighted part, heavily. I do not think that there is any sane person on earth who would want their mentality to go back to the one of someone three years old. Also, Lucy's multi personality occurred when one soldier shot her over the head when she was trying to escape. It did not occur because Lucy created it herself. I did not remember whether she ever personally wished that she can transform into that brainless fanservice girl Nyuu or not. If she did, please cite the actual event in the series to prove your argument (which episode? what did they say? et.c.). If you want to debate in a scholarly way, you have to support your opinion with the actual evidence from the series, which is something which I did in every single arguments I made in my post.
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The show never tried to justify Lucy's actions. It tried to illustrate that she wasn't just a monster, born and bred. She was driven, even without the instinct to kill that she apparently had locked away inside of her. It may not excuse her behavior, but it explained it, giving you an insight that you may not otherwise have had on your own.
Yes, it did explain, and oh, I got it. She killed her classmated because they killed her dog. I got it. She killed those policemen so that she won't be arrested. I got it. She killed Kouta's father and sister because of anger and jealousy. I got it.
I agree with you completely that Elfen Lied did not try to justify Lucy's actions. Instead, it tried hard to make the viewers feel sympathetic towards Lucy, and whether one will sympathize her or not is entirely up to
that individual. If you sympathize her, then to you, Elfen Lied succeeds. Vice versa. I must say that I understand Lucy. Very well. But I cannot sympathize her. And that is the difference between you and me. And since we both agree that Lucy is guilty, so this matter is closed. Let's move on...
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Amnesia. Selective memory loss. Trauma. These are facts of reality. They do happen. There are known cases of trauma where individuals have, in fact, lost their memory, sometimes of their entire lives, over a or several traumatic incidences. They block those memories out, and it often takes a lot of time and therapy to bring those horrible memories back to the surface. In many cases, they never come back. Just because you don't believe that it could happen to you doesn't mean it just couldn't happen to anyone. That's a very boxed in view of the world and a proven fallacy.
I still do not agree with you, but since I am still not certain as to how should I reply to this argument convincingly, so I will leave this paragraph alone for now. Let's move on first and once I have a good reply for this, I'll let you know...
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Kouta is a possible character, albeit a rare and unusual one. It was why he was made such a focal point of the show. Otherwise, the show wouldn't have been as good. There are individuals who can be that forgiving. They even have documented cases, such as women who stick with abusive husbands even if the husband is being tried for the murder of her parents that she knows he's guilty of. People in general can be extremely unreasonable creatures, and so that doesn't rule us out from committing what you might consider unreasonable actions and behaviors.
I could sense that there is something wrong with your argument since the above paragraph. However, I just spotted it now. You are saying that 'lost memory' and 'Kouta's forgiveness' are realistic because it used to happen to someone, and that is an argument which I cannot accept. I have said this once and I'll say it again: If you want to debate in a scholarly way, you have to support your opinion with the actual evidence from the series.
You can use references/events from the real world to support your argument, but they should be something extra. Each individuals have reasons in why they do certain things and their backstories are all different. If you said 'Mrs. X forgave her husband who is an abusive guy', you have to tell me her backstory as well as to why she did so. Maybe her husband is very rich, that's why she stayed with him, because she wanted his money. Maybe he knew some of her secrets (i.e. she used to do something which could make her go to jail, and he knew it....and he told her that if she leaves him, he'll tell the police). Only if her backstory is similar to Kouta, then your argument as to 'Kouta is realistic' may carry some weight.
You have to judge Kouta as a whole to see whether his forgiveness to Lucy suits his personality or not. I can tell you immediately that from his character, it is unrealistic that he forgave her. In the first episode, when Nyuu broke the shell clam (in which it is something which Kouta's sister gave to him), he became very angry and told her to get lost. Now, if he could get so angry just because Nyuu broke that shell, he sure as hell wouldn't be so forgiving when he learned that she killed his father, wouldn't he? Oh, had he forgiven her completely in the first episode, I may agree with you that he is a really forgiving guy. But because he kicked her out of the house in the first episode just because she broke that shell, that is the reason why I saw his action in the last episode as contradictory.
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I just wanted to state that just because one person's actions wouldn't have been your own doesn't mean it couldn't happen at all, or that it hasn't in real life (in different situations, of course, but very comparable). The truth is stranger than fiction.
Well, as I said above, (and third time I am saying this), if you want to debate in a scholarly way, you have to support your opinion with the actual evidence from the series. You say it all the time, 'this event used to happen in real world, so Elfen Lied is not unrealistic'. And I cannot accept that. You have to judge whether one character is realistic or unrealistic from his/her backstory and personality. Hell, one of the Chinese emperors use to eat his enemy's shit (he did it so that his enemy would think that he is loyal to him). Now, if suddenly I say that 'x character in y anime ate shit...that's unrealistic', and you argue that, 'Emperor C used to eat shit, so character y is realistic'...of course it is the argument which I cannot accept, because the backstory of character x does not suggest that he would be a person who would do that sort of thing.
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Not to say that this show doesn't have its holes as all shows and stories outside of reality do, but it's still a very well proportioned series and does a very good job of accomplishing its goal and relaying its message. There wasn't a single character that didn't serve an important purpose, and not a single one of them was meant to act as a distraction of some kind. If you believe that, than the main points of the show went right over your head. They were all used to illustrate some fundamental idea that added to the main idea.
I agree with the first highlighted sentence of yours which stated that Elfen Lied does not come without flaws, because it does, and plenty too. However, I do not agree with the second highlighted statement. Oh, there are plenty of characters who are in this show without important purpose, but then you will think differently, should you read my entire previous post, so I am not going to repeat myself (tired of it *lol*). But then, what is the purpose of this anime anyway? To become a deep and thoughtful (like you believe), or to manipulate its audiences that it is a deep and insightful work while in fact it is not? If the purpose of this show is the latter, then I completely agree with you that every characters in this anime are in this show with important purpose, that is....to manipulate the audiences to interpret this anime as a substantial show _________________ [IMG:205:157:4263622574]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/charn/suzumiya-ep04-02.gif[/img:4263622574]
GRC's Anime Collection
Joined: Nov 15, 2005 Posts: 100 Location: Cyberspace
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:09 am Post subject:
GRC wrote:
If you want to debate in a scholarly way, you have to support your opinion with the actual evidence from the series, which is something which I did in every single arguments I made in my post.
So you're calling what you just did a "scholarly way", huh? GRC, I wouldn't try to get me started with any personal attacks. Try to be a litte more mature about making your own arguments, okay? You've already done enough on your own in making yourself seem like an unreasonable and unintelligent person.
When Lucy got grazed in the head, that acted as a catalyst for Lucy's personality splitting, but it still wouldn't have happened if Lucy hadn't desired for the event to happen in the first place, especially with the way Nyu kept coming and going. That was all psychology. It was in either the last episode or the second-to-last episode when Lucy openly admitted that she'd always wanted to be able to come back to Kouta to make it up to him somehow, but as she was she didn't feel she deserved to even see him again. She hated herself just as much as she had come to hate everyone else. Regardless of what you think, Lucy did want a new start, a completely clean slate.
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Yes, it did explain, and oh, I got it. She killed her classmated because they killed her dog. I got it. She killed those policemen so that she won't be arrested. I got it. She killed Kouta's father and sister because of anger and jealousy. I got it.
No, that was just the last straw. The puppy was in her care, after all, her one and only friend. People had treated her cruelly for years before then, and by the time we saw her when we did she'd finally reached her breaking point. Before then she'd been struggling with her killer instincts and had been doing well enough in fighting them off. Had anyone shown her a true gesture of genuine kindness she may not have become a killer in the first place, despite her instincts. Nana was used to illustrate this fact, and the scientist father figure later announced it as a revelation of his own. Remember, throughout the series she justified her killing people by convincing herself that they all deserved death because not a single one of them had a trace of real humanity within them, and she based her opinion on personal experience. That, in correspondence with her innate drives, is what pushed her to do what she did. Kouta was an exception for her and, later, he became her one remaining link to sanity.
To go further, those kids were just as disturbed as she was, killing the puppy in the way they did. They even enjoyed it. Many serial killers tortured and killed little animals before progressing to people later in life. Those kids were just as much the monsters that she had become, products of a cruel society. They just lacked the power that she had.
And that was the point of the series: monsters are created, not born. But, we are all still responsible for our own actions, instincts or no. This was further illustrated with other characters in the series. There's Nana, and then there's Mayu who is probably the only character who rivals Nana in strength. She was sexually abused by her stepfather, rejected by her mother (who should have protected her), and valued less than a dog by the first owner of the puppy she adopts.
And before you can say that a person like her could never exist, I've personally known one just like her, someone who'd been put through the kind of living hell that even a devil couldn't imagine on its own, and yet she was still able to find a new lease on life and live it as a very kind and nurturing individual. Just as most kids who get abused grow up to be abusive themselves, there are always those exception cases that break away from the circle and dedicate their lives towards being the best parents they can be towards their own kids, never laying an abusive finger on them ever.
Life is like a gambit, and based on one factor or none at all it can go in any one of prismatic directions. There are the generalities, and then there's everything else that happens outside of them.
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I agree with you completely that Elfen Lied did not try to justify Lucy's actions. Instead, it tried hard to make the viewers feel sympathetic towards Lucy, and whether one will sympathize her or not is entirely up to
that individual. If you sympathize her, then to you, Elfen Lied succeeds. Vice versa. I must say that I understand Lucy. Very well. But I cannot sympathize her. And that is the difference between you and me. And since we both agree that Lucy is guilty, so this matter is closed. Let's move on...
If you can't sympathize with her, then you can't understand where she's coming from because that's what sympathizing is. Sympathizing and agreeing with or accepting what she had done are all separate concepts. I never argued with Lucy's guilt. It was never a point in my own argument, and it was never a point in the anime.
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I still do not agree with you, but since I am still not certain as to how should I reply to this argument convincingly, so I will leave this paragraph alone for now. Let's move on first and once I have a good reply for this, I'll let you know...
That's fine. Take your time.
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I could sense that there is something wrong with your argument since the above paragraph. However, I just spotted it now. You are saying that 'lost memory' and 'Kouta's forgiveness' are realistic because it used to happen to someone, and that is an argument which I cannot accept. I have said this once and I'll say it again: If you want to debate in a scholarly way, you have to support your opinion with the actual evidence from the series.
Take your own advice, okay? Being a blatant hypocrite doesn't help your image. Just because you don't agree with someone's argument doesn't mean that person's argument isn't well founded. Do your own research if you really care that much about the subject. Your own argument really wasn't "scholarly" in any way and was all just opinionated gibberish that anyone could have come up with on their own. You don't have anything to support your own arguments except that "it's just unrealistic" and "a load of bull". Very convincing.
I'll state again, just because you aren't like Kouta doesn't mean that a person like Kouta couldn't exist. You're being closed-minded and ridiculously vain in believing that everyone out in the world is how you perceive them to be in your own little boxed-in view of life.
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You can use references/events from the real world to support your argument, but they should be something extra. Each individuals have reasons in why they do certain things and their backstories are all different. If you said 'Mrs. X forgave her husband who is an abusive guy', you have to tell me her backstory as well as to why she did so.
Hmm. I could get really mean here, but I'll restrain myself. Instead, I'll only go as far as this:
I'm not going to waste my time looking up these kind of details when you can do that on your own. Giving the real-life example to help illustrate a point is the only obligation that I have. I won't do your research for you, especially since such details are irrelevent to the point that Kouta could be a possible person. If you don't see it that way, that's your problem, but no matter what you think the facts just don't change. It makes no difference to me if you can't verify them on your own. If anything, it'll only establish me with more reason not to continue this discussion with you as you obviously lack the rational skills to carry on a "scholarly" argument.
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You have to judge Kouta as a whole to see whether his forgiveness to Lucy suits his personality or not. I can tell you immediately that from his character, it is unrealistic that he forgave her.
That's an opinion, not a fact. It's what you believe because this is how you feel people would never act.
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In the first episode, when Nyuu broke the shell clam (in which it is something which Kouta's sister gave to him), he became very angry and told her to get lost. Now, if he could get so angry just because Nyuu broke that shell, he sure as hell wouldn't be so forgiving when he learned that she killed his father, wouldn't he?
So, you think that because someone gets angry with someone, there's no way in hell he'd ever forgive that person later? You're being naive.
Another case scenerio to consider: a man killed two women's father, and they were angry and bitter with him at first, but then they found out that he could be given the death penalty and they fought against it. Why? Because they'd forgiven him, and that's what their father would have wanted because that was the kind of man that he was. This was a real event and had been thoroughly covered by the media during its time. And the killer? Apparently a no-good dead-beat that most people would never have sympathized with let alone forgiven. And yet those women were able to. And before you demand that I be more scholarly in my argument, you can verify the existence of this case on your own. Whether you can or can't doesn't make it any less true, and I won't do your work for you.
Going on.
You've got to remember that despite what Lucy had done as a child, Kouta had been friends with her before then and had developed feelings for her. As the series continued, he developed protective feelings for Nyu whom he eventually associated with Lucy. Near the end he even told Lucy that he just couldn't forgive her just yet (in other words, he wasn't over what she had done), but he was on the road to healing and was still able to accept her, most probably because he still had protective feelings for her and because he knew she wasn't just a hopeless killing machine.
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Oh, had he forgiven her completely in the first episode, I may agree with you that he is a really forgiving guy. But because he kicked her out of the house in the first episode just because she broke that shell, that is the reason why I saw his action in the last episode as contradictory.
Just because she broke that shell? That shell held a lot of meaning for him, and he didn't understand why she'd done it. He just thought it was out of spite. And he didn't kick her out of the house, she ran out on her own, and he only refused to go looking for her at first because he was still very emotional over his sister's keepsake. In the end, his feelings for Nyu, his instinct to care for her and protect her, overcame is initial anger and allowed him to forgive her enough to go out and look for her.
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Well, as I said above, (and third time I am saying this), if you want to debate in a scholarly way, you have to support your opinion with the actual evidence from the series.
*sigh* Some things are just self-evident, guy. Grow up. Not a single thing you mentioned in the series in an attempt to support your own argument really supported your argument. All you did was "like that thing that so-and-so did? Unrealistic! It would never happen!!1!!! Why? Because would you do it? And he got angry before, so that's just more proof that it would never happen . . ."
You didn't list any real reasons as to why it could never happen except to state that no one would possibly behave that way, which is purely opinion based on your own world views. And you attempted to use sarcasm at a stab for potency --- probably because you were trying to distract readers from the contradictions and inadequacies of your own argument.What I did was debunk them by providing examples of comparable real-life events and phenomenon in which such matters have actually happened, attempting to illustrate that some people aren't as clean-cut as you make them out to be.
Besides that, you can also attempt to use your imagination and, I don't know, imagine the possibilities, even if you don't think them to be very probable.
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You say it all the time, 'this event used to happen in real world, so Elfen Lied is not unrealistic'. And I cannot accept that. You have to judge whether one character is realistic or unrealistic from his/her backstory and personality.
Well obviously, based on your argument that lack "evidence", this is merely opinion. In watching the series, I do feel that the characters behaved in a possible way. If any one of them were you, though, I'd agree that certain things would never have happened because you aren't, after all, representative of everyone in the world and have a mind of your own, just like everyone else.
Anyway, I'm afraid I can't dedicate my time to a post longer than this at this time, so I'll leave it as it is. If I haven't addressed everything, that's okay, I'm fine with that. I think I've made my own points clear enough, if not for you, then for everyone else.
I'll finish with stating that this was not meant to be a mainstream anime representing mainstream life. It was meant to be extreme, and everything attached to it is extreme by extention, including the characters. Whether you believe it to be realistic or not wasn't the point of the anime (which was a manga first). It was to illustrate a message.
And whether or not I respond to any more of your posts depends on whether or not they're "scholarly" enough.
Joined: Oct 09, 2006 Posts: 18 Location: My comfortable chair
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject:
You should publish that as a book. It was certainly long enough.
You brought up a lot of goodpoints. But, people have different taste in anime, and rate differently. While you did bring up a lot of points about things that didnt make sense in it the show. their are others who could find great points in the story. Every anime has things that dont make sense or contradict each other. I know there were a lot of things that didnt make sense in it, which is actually why I started reading the manga, to see what happened. I still liked the anime a lot, and it is one of my favorites. I overlooked the faults, because if an anime had to fix all its errors or tie up any loose ends, you have a long series, or a series with episodes dedicated to simply explaining things that really dont have anything to with the series, and everyone hates fillers, which those would be. It just kind of ruins the story. Take it for granted and enjoy the story. _________________ I am the Owner of nowhere land
Queen of the castle thats made of sand
And whether or not I respond to any more of your posts depends on whether or not they're "scholarly" enough.
My argument has always been well argumented, should you read it with an open mind. However, yours is not. Don't be angry. I am pointing out an obvious fact. Oh, there are more than five times I spotted you saying that I am 'naive', 'immature', et.c. And I have never said that to you. Actually, let me quote them:
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You've already done enough on your own in making yourself seem like an unreasonable and unintelligent person.
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Do your own research if you really care that much about the subject. Your own argument really wasn't "scholarly" in any way and was all just opinionated gibberish that anyone could have come up with on their own. You don't have anything to support your own arguments except that "it's just unrealistic" and "a load of bull". Very convincing.
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I'll state again, just because you aren't like Kouta doesn't mean that a person like Kouta couldn't exist. You're being closed-minded and ridiculously vain in believing that everyone out in the world is how you perceive them to be in your own little boxed-in view of life.
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be a possible person. If you don't see it that way, that's your problem, but no matter what you think the facts just don't change. It makes no difference to me if you can't verify them on your own. If anything, it'll only establish me with more reason not to continue this discussion with you as you obviously lack the rational skills to carry on a "scholarly" argument.
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You're being naive.
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*sigh* Some things are just self-evident, guy. Grow up. Not a single thing you mentioned in the series in an attempt to support your own argument really supported your argument.
Well, I don't like discussing something with someone who cannot debate without any personal insult either (I hope you are not upset because I am pointing out a very obvious fact). I have yet to call you 'unintelligent', 'naive', 'immature', or anything you called me (which should anyone who actually has brain really read what I said and what you said, they will know who is 'mature' and who isn't). You obviously have very little argument, and most of what you have said have been nothing but raving and ranting over me. Hence, I am not going to address anything you said in your post because I have no interest to read your brainless drivel.
If anyone who can debate calmly and intelligently without any stupid insults would like to discuss this then I would appreciate it. I have no time for a silly and disgruntled. And yes, you mentioned about not replying. Well, if you do not have a simple mentality to discuss anything without personal attacks (like you did several times which I have quoted), then please do not reply. _________________ [IMG:205:157:4263622574]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/charn/suzumiya-ep04-02.gif[/img:4263622574]
GRC's Anime Collection
Joined: Nov 15, 2005 Posts: 100 Location: Cyberspace
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject:
So, telling someone that they should learn how to argue in a "scholarly way" (several times and with a high-horse attitude) when you really didn't have much basis behind it and were even more guilty of being so fallible isn't an arrogant and assuming way of starting a fight?
Kind of makes me wonder what you were trying to do, but maybe there was no reason at all considering how much you must love the taste of your own foot and @$$. You really need to learn to take what you dish out, especially when you're insulting people in an attempt to make yourself seem more intelligent. Scholarly? Come on.
GRC wrote:
My argument has always been well argumented, should you read it with an open mind. However, yours is not. Don't be angry. I am pointing out an obvious fact. Oh, there are more than five times I spotted you saying that I am 'naive', 'immature', et.c. And I have never said that to you. Actually, let me quote them:
[and on and on and on]
Blah blah blah. Wait, did you just state "with an open mind"? You're kidding me, right?
Kid, come back when you grow up a little, okay? I don't have time for squabbles like this. Once you learn how to debate like someone who knows how to think, I'll give you a little credit. Until then, good luck with the rest of your life.
At this point, most viewers would tend to think that Lucy is a heroine, not a villain, and would sympathize with her no matter what she had done.
Well from my view, Elfen Lied had no hero or heronine. In fact, almost everyone is a villain in many ways. Some examples:
Kurama- He has killed many unborn D-------(can't spell -_-), but yet lets his daughter live when his wife begs him. But when a man protested to having his child killed, he still takes it away. Selfish I say. Giving sympathy to those close for you and a cold hand to those you don't know.
Boy- The little that killed Lucy's dog. He is the only one other than Brando to commit acts of violence without showing any care of emotions. Sadistic and pure evil.
Well I don't feel like writing a lot because its been a while so my memory of it is fading. There are no real hero in this story. Everyone is a villain and a victim. _________________
yep, no fighting please.. all of us have different opinion about this. we're all expressing or commenting about this anime, so all of us have different opinion about this.. ^^ Cheer up. _________________ [IMG:450:202:5be4d83956]http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/9639/bannerle6.png[/img:5be4d83956]
Joined: Nov 15, 2005 Posts: 100 Location: Cyberspace
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:30 am Post subject:
NishinoTsukasa wrote:
Angel_Armz wrote:
Kids! Peace! No fighting! -________-
yep, no fighting please.. all of us have different opinion about this. we're all expressing or commenting about this anime, so all of us have different opinion about this.. ^^ Cheer up.
Please don't beat it over our heads. It was enough coming from one person.
Besides, the fight wasn't about the anime itself, and I'm done with it.
well there has certainly been some "insightful" discussions. To me Elfen Lied did an incredible job. A visual hard hitter causing for some extremely hard to watch parts. At the same time however, the style of the artwork suggests a much softer undertone, similar to the relation of the whole story. On the surface the diclonius are very violent, but underneath is still that inherent wish for love and kindness. As I have read the previous posts, a major disagreement seems to have cropped up over the realism of the characters. To me, the characters in Elfen Lied are all real enough for the purposes they serve. What do I mean by that? Well, do I believe that people like the characters exist in real life? No. There are most definitely people out there that are similar, but I do hope they have more dimensions than that of anime characters. The fact remains to there is really no way to make characters in any type of entertainment to be as complete and "real", but in the case of Elfen Lied they were all at the very least consistent in the behaviour. Though some of them seemed to have seemingly impossible, or more properly, improbable traits, it is all very plausible in the context of the show's own suspension of beliefs.
As radical as this show is, definetly thumbs up from me. Though I was thrown off at the beginning when I watched it, it definetly grew on me as it just would not leave my mind. Not just the visual parts, but some of the sentiments behind the show. A proper anime of proper length, now's just to follow the manga and see how that turns out.
Seriously, I do not expect such a, erm, "scholarly" argument upon the rights and wrongs of Elfen Lied. Getting agressive in your agrument is GOOD, but starting to taunt is something wrong.
I never like to read long paragraphs... So I wont bother.
But hey, I like to challenge the topic as well.
I have to agree some of you both arguments... Lucy is guilty from all the terrible things she did, no doubt... but I won't blame her. In fact I'll blame the horrible condition she grew up in and and treatment that was given to the horned people.
Nyu is just a personality that was devoid of any memories of Lucy's harsh past. Nyu "happened", or was "created", when the sniper hit herbut did not kill her, some sort of reaction to the brain, etc etc.
But then, some form of subconcious of Lucy has a strong urge to clean out all her guilt and crime, and began life anew in a good environment. It's just because the situations don't allow her, but she didn't totally give up hope.
Which is why the strong urge SHOULD be the reason why Nyu was "born", but her self-denial led her to want to take control of her body again, for she know that Nyu will not be able to survive (which she did because she found Kouta).
Joined: Feb 04, 2007 Posts: 1804 Location: Thinking of Good and happy thoughts
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:38 am Post subject:
nice people nice i love these debates but still elfen lied is gruesome so it is up to the readers and veiwers to give their opinion on wat the anime is trying to say to me my say is that it is all about symphaty , forgiveness , love and the feeling of being protected
oh and pls NO!!!! FIGHTING!!!! and TAUNTING!!! _________________
Elfen Lied is one of my favorite animes ever. Although very violent and gory, it is suprisingly deep and gorgeously animated. In fact, the idea that Elfen Lied (pronounced El-fen Leed, german(?) for Elf's Song) was up for reading on this site is what drew me here. The characters are tortured souls, each with their own unrealistic, yet attainable delimas (sp?) to worry about. The series contains 13 episodes plus one episode 10 1/2, an extra episode released later on by ADV films. Do yourself a favor and splurg the 30 dollars to buy the series from best buy or whatever. Just do it.
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