Mecha genre discussion and comparing rules page 1

kaykay · Shogun Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 2622 Location: Cali

well since the "why is GW so popular ?" thread got locked for good reason, i decided to make a new topic just concerning GW, GS, and Fafner....discussing their similarities, ur likes, dislikes, etc... anything about the series.....but it would probably be best to compare them as much as possible.

Eisen: Well I've been thinking about this for awhile now and I've decided to change the topic and put in some rules. I figured I'd make this into a mecha genre thread insteed.

1. No post like "GSD Rulz!!!"

2: No "Dude Shinji is so cool" posts

3: No "Heavyarms is the best" posts

So if your planning on posting no one liners and think abit before posting. There are people who are keeping their eyes on this thread
_________________

Tevesh · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:

As many bad guys have asked...

"Why won't you die?!"

Why do people need to talk about this online? Get some real friends to talk about this. I've done that with my friends. It wasted 20 minutes and we were done instead of 30 page spamfests! I don't know about DA but GW and GS do not have anything to discuss but your favourites. If there philosophical discussions, that'd be fine. But that doesn't happen in Gundam series... Just cool action.

Make this thread original and exciting, and it'll stay open. If its the same old, then it'll get locked. Please, show me excellence.

kaykay · Shogun Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 2622 Location: Cali

well i guess we'll try to show some excellence....but i don't c y it pains u to see ppl talk about certain anime shows..so yea i don't see how they're "spamfests" if ppl are discussing about anime shows which they enjoy or don't enjoy.

isn't that the point? to discuss wat u like about certain anime series and compare them w/ fellow viewers? if this thread goes no where lock it up...but i seriously don't see ur reason for disliking threads such as these...but if u wish lock it...ur the boss~!
_________________

mistabean · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject:

I don't see what's there to be compared actually... They are not in the same league, although they all are in the same genre (which is mecha)

The Gundam series focuses more on political powerplays and the questions on right and wrong, I think. It is also far more "realistic" with it's mecha and enemies. But then again, my first Gundam was Gundam Seed, so I can't comment much on that (though I know about Amuro though ^^)

Fafner, though is better grouped together with the likes of Eva and RahXephon. For once, it is more mind-boggling with all it's complexe terms, usually following some sorts of legends. (Fafner follows Nordic legends if I am not mistaken). It is more towards of "attitude of fighting a common enemy" and usually we have two of the same sides, but with different ideals and approach to tackle it. (Eva has, on one side, Seele, and on the other Gendou, with Shinji trapped in between)

Oh well, I think I have to see this through... and let it live for awhile...

PS: Stay on topic!!!
_________________
...

eisenmeteor · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject:

lol well in this power ladder Tevesh should outway my say in all of this, then again shouldn't mine and mistabeans word be more final since we were put in charges of the anime forums. Still I'll post my opinion on the whole even if it's not very objevtive since I taken part in the so called spamfests. I don't really see the harm in this or the old thread, the only problem was that they'd go offtopic every now and then. They still talked about the show in question what they liked and didn't like what parts were good what was stupid etc. It's not like they posted a bunch of crap only, have you even seen the serious talk we've had about GS and GW? Sure some of them were abit silly but still we went on and talked about it because we enjoyed it. Heck if you look at the time me and kaykay were going at each other you have like 1 essay long posts were we argued against each other. People were complaining and saying it was way to much to read, it was that serious and all of it ontopic. I'll let you know I was/am a GS over GW and kay was/am GW over GS. Still it's not like it was pointless "I like GS better then GW because it was cooler and I said so" talk. We compared and we talked about it seriously. For example the character development in the series, the designs what they could have done to improve the series etc. Just making sure you understand this wasn't in the Why is GW popular thread.
If we go on about pointless threads there are far more pointless threads that I've let live, like a couple of vs thread and favorite character in an anime etc that are just filled with one liners and no real discussion. While here and the old one they actually talked about the shows.
And so what if they want to talk about this online and not with their friends those it really make that much of difference? If we use that as our rule we might as well start locking up every thread on the forum and say "Get some friends and talk about it with them insteed".
I know you rather have some intellectual talk and all that but if they talk about it seriously I don't see any harm in letting them talk about it, except for their going offtopic part. And the old thread could just as easily have been changed into a Gundam Wing thread insteed of why GW is popular.
And about exciting should I hire a gnome that can sing the intro to GW, GS and fafner then?

I can't say much about comparing it to fafner since like mistabean said they are in diffrent kinds of show. Still mecha but diffrent, the only few things they had in commen with Gundam would be the character designs and similar personalitys.
Like I said the only real problem I see is the offtopic part. Huh first time I've seriously had to argue with an admin about a thread. And like I've said I might not be the most objective on this subject so you'll have to take it with a grain of salt.

leoxjm · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:

Hello, everyone!

Instead of discussing wheter or not the topic should stay or go, lets actually get on with it and see if it works in practice, where things matter.

Now, picking up on the old thread (why not?) I noticed that a lot of folks had some problems with Fafner's large cast. Personally I didn't. Even though GW's cast is smaller, I cared more about Fafner characters than GW's. when Fafner people died I was like "Oh crap", whereas when the Gundam pilots got apparently killed (like Trowa in the Vayeate afte Quatre shot him) only made think "well... there he goes". My point is that GWs small cast failed to interest me more than Fafner's large one. In my opinion Fafner's character development was pretty well done, better than GW, which actually needed Endless Waltz to help wrap it up.

Oh, and a small topic similarity: although Fafner fights against aliens and GW is ppl vs ppl, Fafner has a short reflection on that topic in its "Human Army" arc, roughly chapters 11-17. Although the perspective is a bit skewed due to the presence of the common enemy, which was not a factor in Gundam. Just a thoguht.
_________________

jckool · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject:

so i guess we're talking here now huh...

aww let us go at it for awhile.. then we'll make a new one when you lock this one and then we'll get in trouble and..err.. u get the point... but honestly though, if we're talking about anime shouldnt it be done in the anime board..? i dont think theres anywhere else to do it... Except for travesh's little example of find a bunch of friends and talk about it.. >___<

anyway, i guess if you group it that way mistabean they do come in seperate categories.. but, in a sense... the gundam series are also like there are 2 sides with the same ideal..or waht not, well sometimes, alot of times thats not true. but.. well if you look at say the original series over time, the people do try to accomplish the same things, but in many many different ways, and thats same with GS, or whatever.. and in the middle most of the time are our so called "good guys" ..or the main characters..

i guess if you look at the series over the long run, they might be alot more similar..but..err.. ^___^ (no i probably have no clue what i'm talking about..)

philosophical discussions can happen with gundam.. like..uhm... What would happen if "Blah" and "bleh" "insert osmething here" ...and well, now with fafner.. theres all that nothingness and existing crap to talk about too... and why theres need for cores..and what not, theres alot of unexplained things in the show actually..

anyway let us go on for like 20 pages before locking us k? =)
_________________
Mr. Offtopic o_o
[img:500:100:ad4baafa2d]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jckool/jckoolbanner.jpg[/img:ad4baafa2d]

kaykay · Shogun Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 2622 Location: Cali

hey hey GG thanx for stickin up for the "lil ppl...lol...well i'll pm u later on my opinions on our so called "Spamfests"...but i'll stay ON TOPIC for the remainder of my post.

well i can't really say i formed a connection w/ fafner's characters yet, basically bcuz i haven't seen the whole series, in fact as most of u know i just started watching it. and i have to agree w/ leo a bit on forming a connection w/ GW's characters. I didn't really connect with wufei or quatra....but still...thus far i've connected w/ them more than i've connected w/ fafner's characters.

like i said b4 fafner's characters seem to lack personality. Kazuki just seems to do wat he's told w/ a lil doubt....but no objection....and the other characters just seem to root for him like he's an expert @ piloting the dragon or watever the armor is called. i find it quite odd how kazuki isn't surprised w/ this whole humans vs. aliens dilemma...and how he said, "i know this.." in his 1st battle.....compels me to ponder if there's a secret or 2 hidden in the series.

so i'll compare more of fafner to the gundam series once i've watched more of it. wat i think that all these shows have in common (GS,GW, and fafner) is that they have good, top of the line animation. i know i know....u might be thinking GW didn't look good or watever...but in my opinion it did especially for its time...they have a lot of great scenes and GW did a good job w/ consistency in its animation..but it did get better as it came to the end of the series. .and of course we see a big improvement when it came down to watching EW~!
_________________

jckool · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject:

btw.. kaykay you changed the topic right when i was typing up my post.. >___> so i went out and was like. huh? wheres the topic? haha

oh crpa. that was offotpic.. anyway..

ON TOPIC:

leo is right about gw character wise i think ..., only one i ever really even cared about was probably heero, probably because he was the main char and got so much screentime... but other than that, it was like.. oh, they died? meh. In fafner though... kaykay you're right, the sick girl does die. and when she dies... i was like NOOOO >_< same with alot of series, i guess characters without very much emotion just doesnt cut it for me...
_________________
Mr. Offtopic o_o
[img:500:100:ad4baafa2d]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jckool/jckoolbanner.jpg[/img:ad4baafa2d]

kaykay · Shogun Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 2622 Location: Cali

AHAHA!! dude that was hilarious..ur spoiler!~! oh and i didn't change the topic...GG did....which is for the best~!

well ur right Heero did get a lot of screen time...but so does kira and i have no connection with him!!..lol. keeping a connection w/ kira is hard...he's such a cry baby....he just seems to weak in my opinion, reminds me of shinji from eva.

so does kazuki form more of a personality as the story escalates?
see in GW every character is mostly completey different from each other...while in Fafner everyone seems to just act the same~!
_________________

eisenmeteor · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:

Your not like me then jckoolerator, I didn't feel anything for her when she died. I was more "Ohh she died, that was kind of stupid". Like I said before everyone went Kazuki this Kazuki that. Then again I didn't feel that much for the characters in GW either. Thing is I felt like I didn't get to know them only abit on the surface. I feel that if the show was longer I could probably have felt more for them then I did. Then again since people does die in fafner you don't get the they are invincible feeling from the pilots.
Then again there's only a few animes I've seen that I've really felt for the characters and you know felt heartached when something happened to them. There's alot of animes when I go damn that person is annoying and stupid.

And as for Kira being weak like I've said before it felt more humane then just going. Ohh so I killed him, what's for breakfeast.

leoxjm · Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject:

Gotta side with jckool on Shouko's death (already spoiled it, anyway). It was a pretty well done death scene, and although I did see it coming it was still powerful. Honestly,I also didn't think that Kazuki was THAT great of a character by himself, but I thought that his relationship with the other characters was a crucial point to move the plot forward and develop everyone else, especially Maya, Soushi and Kenji.

About Kira, I like eisen's position. Kira had lived peaceful life, and that is why he cracked when suddenly thrown into a war. Hey, he might as well have lived in Tatsumiya island. The difference between him and say, Kazuki is that Kazuki had his best bud Soushi fighting alonside him and also felt that he owed Soushi something and had to pilot fafner in his place. Kira had no such incentive. Thei ony common point is that they both had to defend their friends, but Kazuki also had to defend his family, his homeland and pretty much the entire world h knew back then. Kira's situation is way more confusing, and that is why he could seem weaker at times. He is just more humane than the GW people, who pretty much live just for the sake of their missions, although they slowly (maybe too slowly) break away from that way of life.

Anyway, Kay, you should pick up the second dvd and check it out. It is pretty difficult to start caring about characters of ANY series after only the first four episodes.
_________________

jckool · Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:23 am Post subject:

leoxjm · Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:47 am Post subject:

mistabean · Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:00 am Post subject:

well everyone in the Fafner series is important. You will be saddened when they are picked on bit by bit. Shouko's death was a bit shocking, but it sets the mood of the latter episodes, when the children realizes that this is war that they are fighting in...

Mamoru's death was definitely another shocker, even though from the get-going we know he was indispensible. But his death sets the mood for the next heavy attack, and Michio's death and Soushi's kidnapping sets for the final battle. Heck even the death of Mamoru's mum, even though expected, still definitely a shocker

I think this is where Fafner better than GS. The characters, no matter how minor, was bring out to their fullest potential. In GSD, they didn't do this with Heine. (Although Flay's dad death was setting the character for Flay though)

The ability to kill off characters was definitely respectable, and always a plus in my books. They didn't do it much in GSD (they should have kill Kira, or at least Andrew...)
_________________
...