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Joined: Aug 01, 2006 Posts: 492 Location: Beyooond the Moooon!!!
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject:
Hooray, someone calling her by her real name!
Why has everyone been calling Re-l, Real? The report for her death spelled it clearly as Re-l to start off with. The rest of the A was only shown very lightly and was obviously some kind of plot device or indicator of character... Even though it hasn't been expanded on since. I'm wondering if it's going to be important by the end of the series.
Incidentally, KingKow, we already knew that Mosque, or Moscow, or whatever the city is called, had fallen before the missile was launched. Right back at the beginning Vincent says that he came to Romdeau because of the disaster at Moscow. We never found out what that disaster was, though (or at least I don't think we did...).
But wasn't there a second launch of the missle, when raul was about to get erased from the directory (I personally didn't get that part at all). Unless Mosque/Moscow are two different places...
Joined: Aug 01, 2006 Posts: 492 Location: Beyooond the Moooon!!!
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:31 am Post subject:
When was the first missile fired then? I don't think the original reason for Moscow falling was because of a missile. I think it's more likely it was because of the proxies (and maybe ergo himself).
When this series comes to a close, we're probably all going to have to sit down and try really hard to work out just what in hell actually went on!
Haha i feel like a forum troll rite now, wutever, but rmb in one episode (i think) Kraul and the Doctor dude, D-something...were talking about how the city (sorry i have a really bad memory)..Romdeau thats it, how they used a long range weapon on Mosque/Moscow before?
Joined: Mar 15, 2005 Posts: 627 Location: Galloway, New Jersey, USA
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject:
Yes indeed... Ergo Proxy is my biggest disappointment since Samurai Champloo... I will delete all the old reviews so please resubmit your reviews after you finish the series.
Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 238 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject:
After finishing this series, we now completely realise how rudiculous the fillers are. The pacing in this anime is terrible, im not sure how they can justify fillers when after the completion of the series there are many groslly underdeveloped plot points.
Joined: Sep 01, 2005 Posts: 1818 Location: Milk comes in bags here.
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:47 am Post subject:
Ok, after watching the entire series:
Yes, the fillers were almost agonizing to go through with.
Too many, way too many useless trivias and references that I really don't care about.
Ending was pretty nice, but felt too rushed. They spent too much time talking and explaining to answer so many of the questions that this series started out with. It almost felt like I was reading up a synopsis of the ending instead of watching a show. Just way too much plot revelations to digest in short amount of time. But, I really liked Vincent's last line: "For I am Ergo Proxy, the emissary of death."
Joined: Aug 01, 2006 Posts: 492 Location: Beyooond the Moooon!!!
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:
Good ending! Saved the series in my eyes. It's not a classic by any means, but it's still pretty damn good at times. It's well worth an eight out of ten, I should think. There was nothing wrong with the fillers in themselves, plenty of them were pretty entertaining, but looking back on them they were overused, badly spaced and poorly paced. That has to be the one (quite large) gripe with the series.
Im inclined to agree. Regarding comparisons to the disappointment of Samurai Champloo, I'm inclined to view Ergo Proxy as the anti-Champloo. Good ending, but poorly done fillers. Compared to Champloo which had a poor main story, but excellent fillers. All in all I think the disappointment in both of them is more based on the high expectations put on the series. Everyone was expecting something on par with Cowboy Bebop with Samurai Champloo. Ergo Proxy's first few episodes made people expect much better than what followed. Then we get a poor middle. (I think about everything from Vincent accepting he was Ergo after killing Senekis and Kazukis to returning to the Dome could have been cut other than one episode for Moscow).
Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 238 Location: Australia
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:39 am Post subject:
Hmmmm, maybe i wasnt sharp enough to pick up and any evidence during the show...but i felt that many things that happened in the last 2 episodes had no/not enough devlopmental evidence during previous episodes that may allude the these things happening during the last 2 episodes.
Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 238 Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:22 am Post subject:
For instance, i found it strange how clone Real suddenly turned out to be Monad? Sure that was a cool twist, but really we have no idea why it happened? did Daedulus use Monads genes or something? it would of been nicer if they explained further...Also i thought it was bizarre how there turned out to be some controlling guy apparently pulling the strings in the background, i for one didnt see that one coming and i dont remember any evidence that that would suggest such a thing happening.
I also expected much more development concerning proxies, i really expected to learn the history between ergo and monad and how they ended up together. Well i could go on forever, but you get the idea. Maybe its one of the series that you have to rewatch to pickup things that you hadnt noticed before. In fact i know i wasnt concentrating on a few episodes (sleep was beckoning).
perhaps the weirdest ending to a anime i've ever seen. it was so good until the last few episodes where i was totally confused. anybody wanna help me explain what happened towards the end of the series?
Joined: Nov 15, 2005 Posts: 100 Location: Cyberspace
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:32 am Post subject:
Nef wrote:
For instance, i found it strange how clone Real suddenly turned out to be Monad? Sure that was a cool twist, but really we have no idea why it happened? did Daedulus use Monads genes or something? it would of been nicer if they explained further...Also i thought it was bizarre how there turned out to be some controlling guy apparently pulling the strings in the background, i for one didnt see that one coming and i dont remember any evidence that that would suggest such a thing happening.
I also expected much more development concerning proxies, i really expected to learn the history between ergo and monad and how they ended up together. Well i could go on forever, but you get the idea. Maybe its one of the series that you have to rewatch to pickup things that you hadnt noticed before. In fact i know i wasnt concentrating on a few episodes (sleep was beckoning).
willxzero wrote:
perhaps the weirdest ending to a anime i've ever seen. it was so good until the last few episodes where i was totally confused. anybody wanna help me explain what happened towards the end of the series?
To address you both:
Yeah, Monad was a proxy that had been captured a long time ago. Because of all of the experiments done to her, she'd become so twisted and disfigured that she wasn't recognizable by the time we saw her for the first time, perhaps symbolizing the way we can sometimes twist our past (and, therefore, part of the truth) for our own purposes. Before this, Ergo Proxy had given her all of his memories. Apparently she and Ergo had some kind of romance going on between them.
Real from the very beginning had been a clone created from Monad's DNA, although she existed as an individual person that represented the paradox of what it is to be really human. She had not inherited any of Monad's memories or instincts and seemed more drawn towards shadows where the truth can sometimes lay hidden. She also symbolicly went against conformity, especially when conformity was used to keep secrets.
Later, because she'd deviated so far from what Daedulus had originally planned for her, Daedulus attempted to start over by creating another Real with Monad's DNA, only the new one he created acted as a "reincarnation" of Monad instead, inheriting her soul and all of her instincts. She also carried all of Monad's original mannerisms and personality and seemed early on geared towards finishing what she had started with Ergo so long ago.
The other guy pulling the strings in the background was Vincent/Ergo's other ego, unmasked: his darker, angrier, and more destructive side. When Ergo had attempted to run away from his problems (especially with Monad's urging) and willingly gave his memories away, he simultaneously split his ego into two separate beings (or three, if you count the time Vincent is technically separate from Ergo even though they coexist within the same body). When he became Vincent, he was stripped down to his heart, to his true and most underlying emotions unclouded by his anger but confused by his fear. Together, all three proxies (Ergo/Vincent, Monad, and the other guy we meet at the end) symbolize a kind of trinity of contradicting existences, representing a cycle of struggle and clashing emotions, principles, and standards.
In Ergo's attempt to find meaning, or run away from it, he discovered many different paths. Real comes to represent a new path in life, one without illusions to confuse or blind him to the truth as she actually represents the uncovering of the truth, and so he chooses her in the end. Whereas Monad seems to be a brighter, lighter path, Ergo learns that this is only an illusion. To reiterate, Real represents the truth which is hidden in the shadows. Rather than running away again, which is what Monad partly represents, he chooses to face the future and all of its uncertainties just as he had faced and overcome his darker self (which only saw meaning in destruction).
Only in moving forward, facing our fears as well as ourselves, and seeking the truth can be find true meaning in life and what it is to be alive.
This anime is filled with hidden and double meanings. If you manage to catch enough of them, then the ending really isn't that surprising and you can see how the anime as a whole worked up to it.
Last edited by tenunda on Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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