call to creationists

Itachi-kun · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:28 am Post subject:

I'm not stating my position on this subject, I'm just trying to get questions asked. I'm trying to lead you guys on the path of philosophy.
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ultimasome · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

Listen Itachi there is God…you want proof…gaze at the sky.. you think it was made by a chance
Creatures and this universe until now you think its chance.
There is no chance in this world everything happened or will happen God knew about it but human doesn't want to say "God wanted us to do that thing" they use this word "chance"
Dunno why?! Maybe cause they don't want to believe in God,ignorance or negligence of this fact.
Sorry if I said more but it’s the reality…
Believing in God will never waste your time nor will change anything..
You just believe there is God and go find proofs by yourself..
See what others believe and who is "God" to them…believe in what your mind think its God not what your heart thinks..
But remember one thing if "God" showed himself then nothing like this would've happened cause no one can disobey "God" but they go to conclusions thinking this is "God"…you'll know what I mean.
If you think its chance again then everything happening to us what do you call it?
How does the sky rain?
Why are we here?
What does this life means?
Why us the human live this life?
Where did we came from?
Have you ever wondered about the reason of our existence?
Why this earth was made?
What are we supposed to do during our lifetime?
"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" .
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Itachi-kun · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject:

So basically you have no proof but intuition wich is fundamentally flawed. You can't prove god, and you can't disprove chance except for a gut feeling a need to be something in the grand scheme of things.
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Kaiser · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject:

Oh god. This thread is still here.

Lets just make one thing clear okay?

Keep religion out of this, You can't prove god exists or not because religion requires faith which is irrational. You cannot prove or disprove the irrational. Some people believe and some don't, thats fine.

Back to evolution and intelligent design/creationists. One is a theory continously modified by facts and data we collect. The other is a hypothesis that has yet to be proven with facts or data.

The Vatican has been very clear that 'intelligent design' is not science.
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Cherry-Kun · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject:

faith irrational???........i dont know, maybe, coz its something that reason cant understand, but that doesnt mean its some fool thing

ultima> yes, god is love itslef, thats hes pure nature, he cant hate, he cant harm, hes always willing to forgive

itachi> like hell you wont do it??? why not??? scared??? to ridiculous??? again for the second time, im telling ya to do it alone in some quiet place dude. and did you know that one of the most famous and wise philosophers in the history was a christhian??? Saint Augustine of Hippo(354-430 AC) he fused philosophy with faith, smthn that is called imposible or ridiculous
philosophy = love to the knowledge, faith = smth beyond knowledge, that will be the perfect philosphy if you ask me............you know what??? try to read one of his books dude, that will help ya answer the questions you have, and although we are trying and trying in the most simple way we can, we cant answer. read it as a "philosopher" ok???
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Itachi-kun · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject:

Ok, here's the thing, the first person to have a faith based it off something right? Now, what is that something? We have to assume for the time being that it is the thing that seperates humans and animals. That has to be the ability to think(reason). Now, if religion is based off the ability to think for one's self, then we have to see where we went wrong in the same idea. Religion or faith is not irrational, just those who don't think critically are. Irrationality shouldn't be used for idea, but for concepts and those humans who fail to use reason properly. So, with this in mind, reason(philosophy) should prove religions true or false. Science is best guess work. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. They even have the uncertianty principle to fall back on. We have reason to prove things through means other than empirical data that can be fooled by any number of factors. So, here's the thing. Intution, which most the arguments for god here have been based on(as far as I know anyway), is also flawed because it says that we know everything subconciously when we obviously don't. So, let's just see where we go with this.
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Kaiser · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject:

Yes all religion is irrational. But that doesn't mean its bashing religion or anything, it just means religion can't be explained by normal circumstances, it is based on faith and beliefs. You can prove or disprove anything so debating it is useless.

quosimos · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:53 am Post subject:

CloudBlade · Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject:

well, while the vatican deems intelligent design as a non-science; i think its only because of continuing pressure from liberals.

there is very convincing evidence that helps establish intelligent design; for instance; evolution still doesn't answer the origin of life.

the two irrefutable laws of biologoy are that 1) life comes from life, so rotten meat doesn't produce flies, etc.etc. ; and 2) like produces like, so cat's can't produce dogs and vice versa.

simple stuff; i know

to believe in evolution; we have to say that atoms that are not alive suddenly came together to make a single-celled organism.

keep in mind that both evolution and ID are considered theories; and continuing research and progress is advancing the knowledge.
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ethylenediamine · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:20 am Post subject:

I am so freakin' tired of this thread? Brother Subbergod, where are thou?

Why is it that everytime that someone has to post about creationism, it deviates the discussion to science vs. religion! Intelligent design? A non-scientific theory about a intelligent being creating the world? A belief espoused by idiots?

How about idiotic design? That is what I believe in. Intelligent people believe in an idiotic (or inebriated) supernatural being, most likely of a carbohydrate composition - think FSM!- whose ineptitude created this world. Why else is this world so flawed? Humans with insufficient lower back muscles for bipedal motion? Where is this intelligent creator now? He isn't intelligent! He is idiotic and drunk!

I am so pissed from this thread that I am even willing to support something with which I wholeheartedly disagree. I know that there is no Idiotic Being, but I think I even my belief in a carbohydrate-based supernatural being even has more merits.

I can't believe that Kaiser is the only rational person here. He says religion is irrational. He is completely right. Unfortunately, for those of you with thin skin, you guys think that he is insulting religion. WRONG! Kaiser is just explaining that there is absolutely no empirical evidence associated with religion, such that it cannot be even debated.

Then Cloudblade, who I initally respected, says that there is very "convincing" evidence that helps establish intelligent design. HA! I guess some people just can't get it past there brains that the crux of evolution has little to do with the origin of life. What is this evidence everyone speaks of about ID? Irreducible complex? (Oh! We don't know how the brain can be so complex and evolve from simpler organs! We'll just say it is too complex and must have been created by a divine being) Or other defeatist attitudes that just violate every tenet of science just to further a dumb (That's Right!) political debate! We just love NOT explaining, and adopt the most convenient belief! Oh that is so intelligent!

ID is garbage. Proponents used to claim that evolution violated the second order of thermodynamics. Shows how much they know about the Earth being an open system.

The "vatican deems intelligent design as a non-science; i think its only because of continuint pressure from liberals."

Oh what a cheap political attack! You guys need to differentiate the difference between the theory of evolution and the process of evolution. The theory of evolution is an explanation of a process that occurs. You can't have a scientific theory without it explaining something that does happen. The irrefutable truth is that evolution does occur. Scientific theories are just explanations. These are explanations of processes that DO occur in this world. Evolution is seen all the time, from the fossil record to the laboratory. (Don't fling that macroevolution thing at me! It gets so annoying and immature!). All real scientists accept evolution as a fact. They just can't agree on the exact details. However, attempts to explain evolution is based on empirical evidence. ID is based on gut feelings.

Liberals pressure the Vatican? Who are you Professor of Theological Politics? The Vatican has historically espoused evolution, because it believes evolution is not incompatible religion!

ID is a theory in the sense theory means in common society; it is just an attempt at an explanantion, no matter how bad the attempt.

The theory of evolution is a scientific theory, an explanation based on observation and tests.

"Both evolution and ID are considered theories; and continuing research and progress is advancing the knowledge."

Wrong. Evolution is not a theory. Evolution is a process; it is not an explanation. The scientific explanation for why evolution occurs is indeed a theory, in the scientific sense. Also wrong is that research and progress is advancing the knowldege. Research is advancing in explanations of evolution, not ID. ID is constantly degenerating as more and more of its "whimsical" explanations are being debunked. Irreducible Complex? Crap. Challenges to thermodynamics? Inconclusive Crap. Specified Complexity? Garbage, and etc. The fact is ID is losing ground in its half-@assed explanations, which never amount to any empirical reasoning. The unfortunate thing is that religious dogmatics just won't attempt to expand their views. Science is based on sequential logical arguments. ID is not.

Screw ID! It is the quintessential essence of creationism!

Good piece: http://www.reason.com/cy/cy111505.shtml

ultimasome · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:27 am Post subject:

Proof that "God" exist:
If I say to ya that pieces of woods gathered together and became like bout , I ride it and passed the sea.
Does this get into your mind……….No it doesn’t ………..WHY?!
If you say there isn’t "God" then believe it.

Proof there isn’t "Chance":
If I pushed a glass of water …. what do you explain this?!...CHANCE.
Is it cause you see me pushing it you'll say its me that pushed it and if you don’t see anyone you say it’s a "Chance".

Cherry>>you mean if anyone do bad things god never punish them…no consequences
No punishment…we just regret and god forgive us…regret and god forgive us…regret and god forgive us…………………………………………………………
?!
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subbergod · Naginata Ashigaru Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 553

Xristyan · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject:

quickly enlighten me as to what this thread was originally about... cause even though i read the first page of it the whole thread seems to be going places i don't know... i know its something about evolutionism against creationism but its kinda hard to address that since most of the people here seem to be pitting secular and non-secular ideals which are well erm.. unpittable (??)

i don't know if wikipedia is a very good source on this topic but it did say that creationism has erm kinda two sects... one says that everything was created from nothing.. and the other.. everything was created from chaos (which is already something in a sense)...

i think i have voiced out my opinions about this whole evolution and creation thing and i think i said that im more into joining the two than having them bash against one another... i think wiki terms it as evolutionary creationism??? where in something must have created something out of nothing or chaos (as it says) that is of a very basic composition and with evolution we arrived to what we are today... people can't really deny that evolution is working around us.. we got the evidence on that with all the fossils we have been digging up and even with all the knowledge we have attained right now we can't really go as far as "the beginning" to know where we came from cause its just well erm too far back.. i mean we bipeds have been living here for a heck of a lot of million years already and we still can't really answer our beginnings aside from stories which i know you will say is faulty by all accounts...

well erm anyways. i think im erm going far off now.. so i would like to end it at that... Razz

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Itachi-kun · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:

The debate of evolution vs creation is an arguement of metaphysics which tell us how we came into being and what is real. We can not have a debate of evolution vs creation without it going into religion. Evolution has flaws in its theories of macroevolution right now. It can't explain how life came into being from the building blocks, and can't explain why there aren't missing links all over the place(As I've said before, Lucy can be found walking over in New York or Washington and those people are just deformed a bit). Creation as it is right now has to fall back on the "because it's in the bible" arguement which is just trying to stop an arguement they know their losing. The thing we must try to find out, by process of elimination, is what is real.
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subbergod · Naginata Ashigaru Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 553