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Please, Please, PLEASE! Someone post an arguement for their beleif, so this thread can stop being an insult tourny!
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.....that they are Ignorant or religion is deception....
I may not agree with religion....but I do know to respect those who are religious. Its just gonna end up like all the last scince vs religion topics....
You still don't get it. This thread is NOT to dissprove the existance of god, jesus, or christiananity itself! It is simply to argue evolution, which is about as close to proven fact as anything is. The majority of christians belive in evolution TOO.
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yes u are a anti christ i am sure you'll be in hell since the day u renounce the Lordship of God Almighty!
this is free for all forum i can post whatever i want!
How am I the anti-christ. I do not denounce god, or jesus. I do not claim that god had nothing to do with creation... at least not on this forum...
I simply am saying that evolution has guided us to where we are, and that god did not create us as we are now. You said before that you aren't tring to tell people what to do. Well saying I will burn in hell for renouncing "the lordship of god almighty" is most definitlt telling me what to do.
Yes you can post whatever youwant, but try to keep in relevant to the topic, something that as yet, you have been unable to do.
Come on guys... cloudblade, destiny... lets post some logical arguements so this thread can do what it was meant for!
Thats just a matter of opinion.....that they are Ignorant or religion is deception....
I may not agree with religion....but I do know to respect those who are religious....its a life choice....who gives a shit realy....you dont like what they have to say?...then dont listen....
Starting a thread is just begging for a one way insult slinging match.....
Oh well...what ever....
Read my post again. I didn't say religion is ignorance or deception. I said that it is not Science vs Religion because the Anti-evolution side does not equal religion and the evolution side does not equal "against religion". Make sense?
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 8282 Location: stuck in tard tard land
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject:
Alasdair+subbergod>. Sorry....must have miss-read it then....
Well. Yes I believe in the process of evolution over that of creation by an all mighty being.
As most have stated here already, there is much more proof towards it then any other thoery. To me, holy texts and such do not show me any evidence that their was a GoD who created everysingle creature with a plan in mind.
The again, as for all before the evolition/life....the big bang. I'm not sure. It could be due to some higher power...or due to, well...I'm just not sure. Neither do believe that understanding how everything started before we were even born..(or the entire human species for that matter)....its whats now that counts.
But yeah...the theory of evolution, still a theory...but much more likely in my mind....than that of a grand designe.
It's THE theory. Theory doesn't mean "unproven" or "wild guess". Kind of like the THEORY of gravity, the THEORY of relativity or the THEORY of atoms. A quick-n-dirty definition of a scientific theory for laymen is "The best explanation for why the facts are as they are".
I just hate it when evolutionary theory and intelligent design etc are presented as competing "theories" when only one of them qualifies as a theory.
Sorry, I have to disagree. If we don't even know where we came from how can we move forward?
Just living in the moment without thinking of our own origins, is a fickle way of doing so. As has been said, how can you know the universe when you do not even know the stars.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 8282 Location: stuck in tard tard land
Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:39 am Post subject:
Well...I guess thats just my way of thinking...I understand those who want to know about such things...I was one......but then found out that it wouldnt benefit me in no way to find out....(well, except for all those science awards, but who cares about those?^^)
No....just knowing a bit about human nature and my surroundings is enough for me....no need to ask myself the 'big questions'..
Joined: Dec 17, 2004 Posts: 657 Location: In the rice paddies.... picking rice
Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:10 am Post subject:
subbergod wrote:
Please, Please, PLEASE! Someone post an arguement for their beleif, so this thread can stop being an insult tourny!
like i said 2 pages back.... why don't you start off, since you made the thread? then i will base my responses on the facts you present as evidence. in usual debates, the challenger is supposed to start off, followed by the defenders's arguements. _________________ Shepherd the lost sheep
Grant us respite against wolven fangs
And, bestow a crushing blow upon the devil
FINAL FANTASY FOR LIFE
I AM THE Ragnarok Online EXPERT
Please, Please, PLEASE! Someone post an arguement for their beleif, so this thread can stop being an insult tourny!
like i said 2 pages back.... why don't you start off, since you made the thread? then i will base my responses on the facts you present as evidence. in usual debates, the challenger is supposed to start off, followed by the defenders's arguements.
Normally I'd agree, however, evolutionary theory is the status quo. There is way too much evidence from many different fields that converge nicely to place here. If you don't know the main lines of evidence for evolution, then you probably need to do your homework However, if you want, I could write an annotated version.
If all premises of this syllogism are true then the conclusion must also be true, if you claim God does not exist please give a rebuttal for any of the points. If you agree that all these premises are true and still don’t believe in God; consequently, my friend, you have way more faith then I will ever be able to have.
1. Something exists.
2. Nothing does not produce something.
3. Something must have always existed.
Why must something have always existed?
To have brought the “something” that now exists (in No.1) into existence, WHY? Because #2 is true (Nothing does not produce something).
4. The universe has not always existed.
5. There must be an eternal power beyond the universe that caused the universe to come into existence.
6. Intelligent life exists in the universe.
7. It takes an intelligent living being to create an intelligent living being.
8. Therefore there must be an intelligent, living, eternal power, beyond the universe, that created the universe.
That intelligent, living, eternal power, beyond the universe that created the universe is by definition, God.
if you claim God does not exist please give a rebuttal for any of the points
Again I have to say this. The point of this arguement is not to disprove the existance of god.
But since your "points" are so ridiculous, I have to respond.
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2. Nothing does not produce something.
It has to have. Something is here. It came from somewhere. that is what caused the big bang. It could also be argued, where did god come from?
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3. Something must have always existed.
Why must something have always existed?
To have brought the “something” that now exists
That does not require god, see the big bang.
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There must be an eternal power beyond the universe that caused the universe to come into existence.
Why? That is very simple minded. It dosen't require a god to make something. Yet AGAIN read the big bang theory.
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7. It takes an intelligent living being to create an intelligent living being.
That's not a fact, that's just plain ridiculous. Why does it take an intelligent being to make an intelligent being? That is impossible. If it were true, who created the intelligent being who created the intelligent being? At some point an intellient being would have had to have been made by something other than intelligent being. This point is utterly false.
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8. Therefore there must be an intelligent, living, eternal power, beyond the universe, that created the universe.
Youre theory is utterly groundless. I will not claim god dosen't exist. It may be what I belive, but as of yet it is unprovable. What I will claim is that your entire arguement for god existing is fancifull hogwash, and is an insult to christians everywhere. I could pick a better arguement from my trash.
Joined: Sep 03, 2005 Posts: 3412 Location: In your refrigerator, eating your food
Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:
Nothing DOES produce something. In fact, this happens ALL the time. Just imagine an "anti-particle" and "particle" breaking up outta nowhere... But I'm not particularly sure about this. It's just a goddam scientific theory.
4 & 5 suggest an aspect of Time. But what "created" Time itself? What the hell is time anyway? _________________ [img:309:200:9b3695521e]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8583/dobedobedojs0.jpg[/img:9b3695521e]
Joined: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 3228 Location: Jack lives here
Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:
isnt the argument the idea that God existed before the universe existed and therefore before time existed and therefore before cause and effect existed?
i found this on wikipedia:
"Modern quantum physics is sometimes interpreted to deny the validity of the first premise of this argument (that everything has a cause), showing that subatomic particles such as electrons, positrons, and photons, can come into existence, and perish, by virtue of spontaneous energy fluctuations in a vacuum. Though such occurrences do not violate the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, Bell's theorem shows that these are impossible to predict. Because the "nothingness" from which the subatomic particles arise from a sea of fluctuating vacuum energy, it may be that such processes contradict the assertion that all effects have causes"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument
Joined: Aug 06, 2003 Posts: 3938 Location: I'm in deep sheet of cute girls
Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject:
Wow, this thread becomes more interesting as the time goes by.
subbergod wrote:
If it were true, who created the intelligent being who created the intelligent being?
Then can I ask you one simple question. Who are the ones that created those things called "electrons", "particles", etc?
Yeah, in the big bang theory, that is always a good read to see how the process goes, but the main question, which is still unanswered, is who even put those things in the first place? Why are they there in the first place?
What I am trying to say is the fact that there will be some questions that we can't answer due to our limitation of our mind. We have limitless questions asked, but the answer is always limited to our knowledge currently. _________________ Innocent Tranquility
The Smile that defies all thoughts of rationality[/
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However, if you want, I could write an annotated version.
