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Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 5630 Location: Inside food!
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:
KaRei wrote:
I understand you very well, because ... I was same. Help others to make them happy, think about others and after then about myself. But ... I already realized something you didn't yet.
told ya before im not waiting for anyone's thanks or smile
i just saved one's life and its over
i like that feeling when i do something good but sometimes these good things may affect on ya
im not hurting myself out of nothing
feeling that is already enough for me...
i dont care if he will died soon..
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I know the great feeling of saving a life, although not a human one. It was when I with my cousin found a swallow with a wing glued together. She was doomed to die with starve. We cleaned her wing with technical benzin and she was able to fly. We let her go and it was great feeling when I saw her fly. But she was still in a shock from meeting with humans and thus she landed on a yard. A cat then made one quick jump and ... my feeling changed in a second. From that good feeling nothing survived. Nothing. Even when it was an animal, I was already connected with that creature. I rather not imagine a despair if it would be a human, like that old one man from our example.
i had the same incident
i saved a bird and made him fly
i feel happy knowing that i made him fly once more
these kinds of feeling i wanted to have was the most good thing in human's life
but knowing that that bird wont survife is something not that shocking cause it will die anyway
why not just concern that ya saved a life from dying that time instead of waiting to see the return of the good thing ya did to it.
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But I won't give my kidney to that unknown old man, because ... I wouldn't want to be connected with him, I wouldn't want see another known person dieing.
dieing??? haha its dying ^______^
let me ask ya something...are ya weak?
ya dont wanna save someone just cause he/she will die anyway
ya wont save them cause of that matter?
Quote:
Good feelings will vanish away, only despair will remain.
if your waiting for return then of course only despair will remain but if your doing this from your heart without demanding anything from them then nthing from this despai will remain with ya. _________________ "Blogger"
Joined: Jan 02, 2007 Posts: 683 Location: Czech Republic
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:00 am Post subject:
ultimasome wrote:
told ya before im not waiting for anyone's thanks or smile
i just saved one's life and its over
i like that feeling when i do something good but sometimes these good things may affect on ya
im not hurting myself out of nothing
feeling that is already enough for me...
i dont care if he will died soon..
And that's what you are expecting. You're still doing it for that good feeling that you helped somebody, don't you? But sometimes it could be defeated with despair even when you don't expect anything else. Strange that you don't care if he'll die soon. If he'll die the next day, wouldn't you feel something?
EDIT: How many people you knew did you see dying. If you saw at least one, then I'm looking up to you that you're able to pass through it so easily. If none, then I understand your trouble-free decision.
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dieing??? haha its dying ^______^
I was too lazy to check it in dictionary
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let me ask ya something...are ya weak?
ya dont wanna save someone just cause he/she will die anyway
ya wont save them cause of that matter?
Now I'm recovering and my NO to save him could be only temporary for this moment. Maybe after some time I'll speak in different way and I'll save different guy. For now, yes, I'm weak, kneeling on my knees, too weak to stand up again so quickly.
EDIT2: Huh? *sheaking my head to weak up from a depression* Such a mood isn't normal to me. So, with clear mind, clear of depress and despair, I can say that I understand you, ultima, but also not at all. I understand that you want help him, but still I have a question if it isn't little bit useless. Wouldn't it be better to save somebody younger that would live longer? I don't think about any reward, just think that you would save a person that would live longer and that is able to do something more in his/her life than 70 years old man who doesn't know if he'll be alive next year? I won't save this old guy, I would keep my kidney for somebody that could use it better. That's it.
Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 5630 Location: Inside food!
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject:
KaRei wrote:
And that's what you are expecting. You're still doing it for that good feeling that you helped somebody, don't you?
maybe and maybe i liked the way im doing this for them to live.
dunno now ya confused me
i need to ckeck about this ^^;
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Strange that you don't care if he'll die soon. If he'll die the next day, wouldn't you feel something?
no i didnt meant it that way
i mean i dont care how much time or years he/she have to die
as long as i help her/him to live for a second.
dont wanna think about how much he/she would live if i gave her/him my kedney cause if i thought like that then the help isnt from heart..
well that's what i think.
Quote:
EDIT: How many people you knew did you see dying. If you saw at least one, then I'm looking up to you that you're able to pass through it so easily. If none, then I understand your trouble-free decision.
what's that has to do with this?
ya think if i saw someone die that will change my mind
and i'll say "what's the use helping them while that one didnt live"
o maybe i'll say "i dont wanna save someone who will die right after he/she a week or maybe a day"
what if i say no i didnt saw any?
Quote:
Now I'm recovering and my NO to save him could be only temporary for this moment. Maybe after some time I'll speak in different way and I'll save different guy. For now, yes, I'm weak, kneeling on my knees, too weak to stand up again so quickly.
then your lying about what ya said that your family or your relatives died and ya saw them.
Quote:
EDIT2: Huh? *sheaking my head to weak up from a depression* Such a mood isn't normal to me. So, with clear mind, clear of depress and despair, I can say that I understand you, ultima, but also not at all. I understand that you want help him, but still I have a question if it isn't little bit useless. Wouldn't it be better to save somebody younger that would live longer? I don't think about any reward, just think that you would save a person that would live longer and that is able to do something more in his/her life than 70 years old man who doesn't know if he'll be alive next year?
OMG he called me "ultima"
ahem stick to the topic..
saving a peson who's younger!!!...hmmm
that's a reward
why do ya want to save younger man/woman?
cause ya dont want your sacrifice go to waste
i dont think of something like that
i only save.
the purpose for me to give him/her my kedney is to make him/her live weither its long or short.
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I won't save this old guy, I would keep my kidney for somebody that could use it better. That's it.
then leave him dying infront of your eyes while ya know the situation?
no i cant do that even if i couldnt help him/her i cant sleep knowing that one human life has gone while i was watching doing nothing
if i had what he/she needs then i wont hesitate but if i didnt have then
may God save him/her. _________________ "Blogger"
Joined: Jan 02, 2007 Posts: 683 Location: Czech Republic
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject:
Quote:
no i didnt meant it that way
i mean i dont care how much time or years he/she have to die
as long as i help her/him to live for a second.
dont wanna think about how much he/she would live if i gave her/him my kedney cause if i thought like that then the help isnt from heart..
well that's what i think.
His possibility to stay alive to next day after transplantation is 75%. If the badluck will hit and he'll die next day, you won't be sorry about your decision? The man after the operation would be in comma and would have nothing from the time you gave him. Isn't it a waste? Before you'll say that you still made him live longer, remember that comma in which he would be for the whole extra time is for him like nothing, like the death itself. Btw. and here is the despair I was talking before. Not because you didn't recieve any reward (you already said you want nothing), but because your expected feeling from saved life is ... away like a steam.
Quote:
what's that has to do with this?
ya think if i saw someone die that will change my mind
and i'll say "what's the use helping them while that one didnt live"
o maybe i'll say "i dont wanna save someone who will die right after he/she a week or maybe a day"
what if i say no i didnt saw any?
Ah, sorry about that question. I shouldn't ask on a such think, but you're right that I was thinking about its connection with your fearless from the death of a guy you would suddenly be connected with. Forget about it, please.
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then your lying about what ya said that your family or your relatives died and ya saw them.
Heh? What did I say that you think that I'm a liar? I'm allowing a possibility that three funerals made me weak and I have a fear for now to see somebody else from my surrounding die in a close future.
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OMG he called me "ultima"
Then take my excuse if it mind.
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saving a peson who's younger!!!...hmmm
that's a reward
why do ya want to save younger man/woman?
cause ya dont want your sacrifice go to waste
i dont think of something like that
i only save.
the purpose for me to give him/her my kedney is to make him/her live weither its long or short.
Where is there any reward? The only reward is still one saved life. Taken to extreme, we can speak that you can save one person, but you've several possibilities whom to save. Whom will you choose? The old one? Or the younger one? You can say that this wasn't the question of this thread, but there are always more people waiting for kidney. If you'll save one, you can't save another. The not chosen one could miss the kidnay when you'll give it to the old guy. Maybe not immediately, but won't it be sorry to you when you'll get then into similar situation with somebody around 30 or 40? And you couldn't help him/her.
Quote:
then leave him dying infront of your eyes while ya know the situation?
no i cant do that even if i couldnt help him/her i cant sleep knowing that one human life has gone while i was watching doing nothing
if i had what he/she needs then i wont hesitate but if i didnt have then
may God save him/her.
As I said before, people in his age are consiliated with death, especially when they're missing such organ for a month. The man had enough time to do all necessary things. God didn't kill him suddenly, but gave him a time to do his things he needed. And the man know it. He doesn't need extra time from you. God gave him it already. His time is out and he is supposed to go.
If the men will ask for my kidney, then I don't know if I'll be able to refuse. I think that I'll break and give it him.
If he won't ask for it, then he is consiliated with his end and is prepared for the way.
Joined: Jul 04, 2005 Posts: 80 Location: Land of the Trolls.
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject:
Anyone who says obviously doesn't have any compassion for their fellow humans.
This situation is similar to a situation in which, say for instance, you were being stabbed by some guy in an alley while a cop watches. Now, if the cop had said "I don't want to help you because I don't know you."
Now how many of you would be supportive of this cop once he goes on trial? How many of you think that this cop should get away with barely a slap on the wrist? Because if you thinks he shouldn't be punished then your in serious need of some psychiatric help IMO.
Assuming that you have two kidneys then the only thing you could possibly lose from giving up one to this guy so that he may live? You only need one so why the hesitation to save another human being? What because you don't know him? Think back on the cop situation...your getting stabbed, you see a cop, and he does nothing because he doesn't want to get involved. Now what would you think about him...I don't think you be so understanding now that your the one who needs help.
You don't want to help because he's going to die some day anyway? If people thought like that then humanity would never progress. In fact, if you think it's useless to save some one because they're going to die anyway then why are you still alive and posting on the internet? If your so smart why don't you kill yourself since your going to die one day anyway?
Now how many are going to kill yourself...not many huh?
Basis of the topic: Anyone who says No deserves to die while some one watches on and does nothing.
Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 5630 Location: Inside food!
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:20 am Post subject:
KaRei wrote:
His possibility to stay alive to next day after transplantation is 75%. If the badluck will hit and he'll die next day, you won't be sorry about your decision? The man after the operation would be in comma and would have nothing from the time you gave him. Isn't it a waste? Before you'll say that you still made him live longer, remember that comma in which he would be for the whole extra time is for him like nothing, like the death itself. Btw. and here is the despair I was talking before. Not because you didn't recieve any reward (you already said you want nothing), but because your expected feeling from saved life is ... away like a steam.
no i wont be sorry about my decison even if he the bad luck hit him and he died...as long as i saved him for a second
look i only want to save someone if i saw him/her needs help from me
im not giving him time...i saved him and gave him my kedney
and i dont think i need that feeling everytime i save someone
its just like save whom ya can save without hesitating.
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Ah, sorry about that question. I shouldn't ask on a such think, but you're right that I was thinking about its connection with your fearless from the death of a guy you would suddenly be connected with. Forget about it, please.
nah i just dont give these things in my mind when it comes about saving others.
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Heh? What did I say that you think that I'm a liar? I'm allowing a possibility that three funerals made me weak and I have a fear for now to see somebody else from my surrounding die in a close future.
ya said ya saw three of them die then arent ya supposed to save others from the misery your family or relatives had gone with?
arent ya suposed to save people who had the same sickness as they had?
arent ya going to find a solution for that sickness?
or are ya telling me that ya only stay still while people die infront of your eyes having the same sickness or misery as your family or relatives had.
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Where is there any reward? The only reward is still one saved life. Taken to extreme, we can speak that you can save one person, but you've several possibilities whom to save. Whom will you choose? The old one? Or the younger one? You can say that this wasn't the question of this thread, but there are always more people waiting for kidney. If you'll save one, you can't save another. The not chosen one could miss the kidnay when you'll give it to the old guy. Maybe not immediately, but won't it be sorry to you when you'll get then into similar situation with somebody around 30 or 40? And you couldn't help him/her.
no the reward your talking about is if he/she's going to live longer or not
i mean ya dont want to waste your kedney that's why
ya want to give a specific person whom ya think your kedney wont go to waste..thats the reward your talking about
just dont let anything like that get in your mind
its like "someone needs your kedney,are ya gonna help him/her?"
and after ya know that person,i mean knowing that there is someone who really needs it then ya ssay "yeah im wiling to help him/her"
that's how it goes without waiting for anything.
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As I said before, people in his age are consiliated with death, especially when they're missing such organ for a month. The man had enough time to do all necessary things. God didn't kill him suddenly, but gave him a time to do his things he needed. And the man know it. He doesn't need extra time from you. God gave him it already. His time is out and he is supposed to go.
im not talking about that man and how old is he
im talking about saving one's life
would ya think about his/her age then decide if your saving him/her or not? or are ya gonna just say that he/she's gonna die after all and sit around and wait till he gets his last breath?
i believe in fate and hes gonna die after all but if they ask for help i wont hesitate.
Frerretmage>>>good one
ya said that right
i couldnt reach that point right as ya did
plus now there another one who agrees to save others without reward
im not the only one .. im so happy. _________________ "Blogger"
Joined: Mar 11, 2005 Posts: 2071 Location: Behind a computer monitor
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:22 am Post subject:
mangaddict_reborn wrote:
sorophose wrote:
P.S. no scientific answers take the fun out of the question, I dislike morality it's only an excuse.( to me it is I don't know about you guys).
I just meant no arguing with me and so forth. Donating your kideny doesn'ts have to be the only solution, blood dialisis would be a temporary fix, so on and so forth.
manga>> No offense but this completely removes the question of morality and yes, logic from the situation. Blood dialysis is effective and proven treatment; this old dude wouldn't even be dying from the need for a kidney. Then there are xeno transplants, like from pigs so the old dude has that choice open to him too. If the old guy doesn't take the benefit of science and demands a kidney, I'm certainly not in a hurry to donate mine.
Joined: Jan 02, 2007 Posts: 683 Location: Czech Republic
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:41 am Post subject:
I'm beaten. Ultimasome's and Ferretmage's opinions are from heart and my, ... only from brain. I tried to speak in a way I thought that is a rational one, but it's rather irrational to think in a way I did. In the situation from the example, overloaded with emotions and in pressure of time, I think (and also hope) that most people would save the guy even when now they're saying "no". I would be one of them. Saying no now, but giving it in the end.
I said that I was trying to speak in rational way, but my arguments were only excuses for a selfishness and cruelty. I feel sick about myself. I'm not selfish or cruel, but what else I can feel about myself if I was able to think so easy about somebody dying?
In my previous post I said that God gave time to that man already. But thinking about it, why he (the God) then send somebody who can save the old guy?
As I said, Ultimasome's and Ferretmage's opinions are from heart, and these can't be beaten with any argument. And in the end, I don't want beat heart. If brain will be stronger, then we'll find humanity in that extreme situation that Ferretmage described: even police wouldn't do anything, because it's clever to stay back.
You're right ultimasome, I won't be able to see the old guy dying if I'll know I can help him.
And the "not scientific answers" thing, it's just about if no other way would exist, if the transplantation of kidney from another human would be the ONLY possibility.
Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 5630 Location: Inside food!
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:01 am Post subject:
This isnt a thing to win or lose
i wanted to each my point of view about this matter but i think it took long just to make ya understand
while ferre got it in one post
feel disappointed
oh well what can ya do?
as long as ya get what we said then its ok for me
ya cant cahnge everything in overnight ^_____^ _________________ "Blogger"
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