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That's harsh..lone ..this is why the world has so many flaws and why people aren't together as one.
Flaws? just b/c we didn't accept them now it counted as flaw? when ur society allow drinking wines, having oral sex as a matter of taste, having such places as host clubs where hookers buy themselves, having a deep relationship and giving birth before mirrage where some children don't know their real fathers, and many others while knowing their causes to the individuals. Don't you count them as flaws?!
Let us change the flaws first before accepting each other.
And yes we will be together but it'll be the union of ppl following their lust because half of them, if not most, are doing it for enjoyment. And soon we have to accept the forbidden love b/w siblings, mother and son, father and daughter,..etc
No offense. You, mellow, are talking with confidence as if homo ppl born like that. No one born gay. If you brought some theories to support your words then I can bring a thousand of theories that proves the opposite. Its a matter of choice, that's it.
There is a history along with over a 100 years of psychological studies that consider homosexuality a disorder. But now it doesn't consider as disorder, do you know why they changed it? go ahead and make some research for that though you can find the answer if you read the whole posts in this thread.
Their relationships end with nothing but causing them diseases that make them suffer.
When homo guy rapes or molests a hetro boy then this boy for 90% will turn gay. Yesterday I watched a show talking about some stories like that. I don't really need to watch or hear this from anyone since I know ppl have the same experience living around me.
And about homo adobting children, truely if they can't (see I said "can't" not "unable" ) have children then why do they want to make family by force? If you can't bring child by nature then your relationship is wrong. In other words your relationship is against nature. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 678 Location: Currently in the Land of Anime and Manga
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject:
Lone, the logic behind the age of consent is that children are too young to make decisions that take into account the full ramifications of their actions. Do we turn 18 and suddenly know everything we need to make decisions in life? No, but hopefully we have enough life experiences to make rational judgments and have sensible actions. Once someone has reached adulthood they are free to make their own decisions, good or bad, as long as they don't hurt someone else. The simple fact that you have to argue that we as a society should let children be taken advantage of in order to denounce homosexuality should show you how flawed your logic is. If that's the best you can do then I'm done here. I'm not going to try and convince someone who is that misguided on the subject.
TL, current research shows that there are likely contributions from genetics, psychological factors, and social factors that determine a person's sexual preferences. The idea that homosexuality is simply a choice is both a tremendous oversimplification of the matter and an insult to the many homosexuals that have suffered because of their sexual preference. I happen to be lucky enough to naturally like the opposite sex, but others who aren't wired that way face overwhelming hardships because they're attracted to the same sex. To ask them to simply deny that and live heterosexual lifestyles would be the equivalent of asking you to live a homosexual lifestyle. It's outrageous.
And given that society has been persecuting homosexuals for hundreds of years it's only natural that prior psychological studies have treated it as a disease. People didn't like what they saw so they labeled it as wrong with no actual basis for that argument aside from religion. As for your point that homosexuals molest children, so do heterosexuals, and the psychological repercussions from both are huge and often life shattering. As I said and Lone disagreed with, I believe that we should take every possible measure to protect out children from things like that, but the idea that banning homosexuality would cure those problems in society is simply wrong.
Anyway, I've made my point on this subject. I'm obviously not going to convince people whose opinions are so grounded in illogical religious dogma. If that's what you choose to believe, fine, but I'll be voting against it, and like I said before, Lone, the conservatives pretty much always lose in the long run. That's just how history goes.
Anyway, I've made my point on this subject. I'm obviously not going to convince people whose opinions are so grounded in illogical religious dogma. If that's what you choose to believe, fine, but I'll be voting against it, and like I said before, Lone, the conservatives pretty much always lose in the long run.
Yeah, I have to agree, on everything. I consider myself a person of faith yet I can't escape the fact that within the pages of Bible we're to love everyone. I may not agree with the act of homosexuality, but when you take that perspective away we're all just people, and all of us have too many problems to be pointing our fingers at other people and claiming they have the problem.
On the last sentence I blame the media and the conservatives have kicked themselves in the pants enough for me to be apathetic. _________________ "Why does one death matter against so many? Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this."
-Watchmen
Not exactly. You want my real opinion on pedophiles? I think they should all be castrated with a rusty knife(yes, the women too. A hysterectomy is a little more invasive than a vasectomy.) and branded on the forehead with a mark identifying them as pedophiles, which forbids them as being recognized as a victim of any sort of crime.(In essence, doing anything you want to a child molester should be perfectly legal, no matter how depraved or foul. They're not human, they have no human rights. Killing a child molester is never "murder," physically abusing them is not "assault," and they aren't eligible for any kind of employment, because only humans can either be lawful citizens or acquire work permits.)
I don't see any difference between sexual attraction to someone younger than the local "age of consent," sexual attraction to someone who is married to another person, or sexual attraction to someone of the same sex. They're all fetishes, they all have their respective negative ramifications both social and psychological(just like women who abort their children tend to go a little insane, no matter how accepting and positive the local society is), and they're all three things which shouldn't be allowed to influence the traditional definition of marriage.
I took the approach I did because you indicated that your opinion of pedophelia is about on-par with my opinion of homosexuality, so I argued your side of the argument. You see how insane and evil I sounded to you?
That's how you sound to me.
You want to know why I oppose "gay marriage?"
For the past 2000+ years, "marriage" has been accepted as "one man and one woman as the leaders of a family unit." Whether the actuality was the same as the theory tends to vary, but the theory has been that "For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they will become one unit."
But the homosexual option changes things. It stretches the definition of "marriage," and we're not really sure exactly what it is anymore. Is it "A man and a woman?" Is it "a man and a man, or a man and a woman, or a woman and a woman?" Is it "three people of irrelevant gender?" How about "Two people of irrelevant gender and age?" For all we know, at this point, a marriage may include "Six cows, two pigs, an albatross, one sailboat, a pair of sixteen-year-old twin girls, one and a half glasses of water, and the moon."
Screw it. At this point, the definition of a "marriage" is "whatever you want to call it."
And if it's anything you want to call it, is it really anything at all anymore?
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go cut down some of the marriage of trees outside and toss it in my wedding, it's getting chilly outside. _________________ The pen is mightier than the sword
But the sword is so much harder to silence than the pen.
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 678 Location: Currently in the Land of Anime and Manga
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:
LoneWolf325 wrote:
For the past 2000+ years, "marriage" has been accepted as "one man and one woman as the leaders of a family unit." Whether the actuality was the same as the theory tends to vary, but the theory has been that "For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they will become one unit."
But the homosexual option changes things. It stretches the definition of "marriage," and we're not really sure exactly what it is anymore. Is it "A man and a woman?" Is it "a man and a man, or a man and a woman, or a woman and a woman?" Is it "three people of irrelevant gender?" How about "Two people of irrelevant gender and age?" For all we know, at this point, a marriage may include "Six cows, two pigs, an albatross, one sailboat, a pair of sixteen-year-old twin girls, one and a half glasses of water, and the moon."
That's why I said in the beginning that I would never ask the church to allow gay marriage. Any religious institution can say whatever they want about homosexuality. They are free to define marriage as whatever they want, be it "man and women" or "man and women of the same race" like Bob Jones University (a Christian college and seminary with over 4000 students) supports by not allowing members of their university to engage in relationships with different races. I just don't think the government should be involved in those kinds of distinctions.
P.S.- I don't mean to say that conservative Christians are racists. I only used that example to point out that exclusionary tactics can, and often do, lead to blatantly hateful behavior.
P.P.S.- I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!
P.P.P.S.- I love that example, Lone. Did you get the albatross idea from my new tattoo?
TL, current research shows that there are likely contributions from genetics, psychological factors, and social factors that determine a person's sexual preferences. The idea that homosexuality is simply a choice is both a tremendous oversimplification of the matter and an insult to the many homosexuals that have suffered because of their sexual preference. I happen to be lucky enough to naturally like the opposite sex, but others who aren't wired that way face overwhelming hardships because they're attracted to the same sex. To ask them to simply deny that and live heterosexual lifestyles would be the equivalent of asking you to live a homosexual lifestyle. It's outrageous.
When one doesn't have a feeling to the opposite sex doesn't mean he must have a feeling to the same sex and thats what most of doctors say which I consider it as programming others. Over my place there are many gay who truely are hetero but as I said before b/c of flirt and molest they faced in their childhood or sometimes their parents are the reason that they started having feelings for the same sex. Other than that its a matter of choice.
We're not blaming them for their feelings to the same sex since emotions isn't on our hand, nor we're saying to them to suffer not falling in love but there is a therapy for them to become hetero. Why not take it and end this case rather than complaining being descriminated and whats not. I may sound rude to some ppl for what I said but this is the best solution for both homo and hetero.
Quote:
And given that society has been persecuting homosexuals for hundreds of years it's only natural that prior psychological studies have treated it as a disease. People didn't like what they saw so they labeled it as wrong with no actual basis for that argument aside from religion. As for your point that homosexuals molest children, so do heterosexuals, and the psychological repercussions from both are huge and often life shattering. As I said and Lone disagreed with, I believe that we should take every possible measure to protect out children from things like that, but the idea that banning homosexuality would cure those problems in society is simply wrong.
That what most of ppl think and that's why I said make some research.
We didn't ban homo just to cure children and other problems -___-
When a child make wrong decision that would harm his life then everyone go against him....to save his life, I think. Saying he's a child so he doesn't understand well the decision he made but when two adults (homo I mean) decided to live together knowing that their relation will harm them and shorten their lifespan then no one say anything yet they support them for the sake of love. Hurray for blind love. We all know anyone who is in love the decisions they make will seem right to them and nothing but right.
Lets be more reasonable and not contradict ourselves in such occurate situations.
Frankly, I am against them b/c of my religion first, but my religion isn't based on blind believe and thats why there are so many reasons I found that show why homo's relationships are wrong.
About gay mirrage I have a question. Why do they want to marry? to have children? to make family by adopting? one way or another they're just forcing their way to do what hetero or natural couples do. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 678 Location: Currently in the Land of Anime and Manga
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:41 am Post subject:
TL- I'm not even going to address the body of your post. I don't feel that it's worth replying to because it's entirely based in completely outmoded thought and logic (even more so than Lone's) and obviously biased research (as much of the research on homosexuality tends to be. Kind of like tobacco company research on cigarettes).
As for your final question, however, gay people want to get married because of the complete commitment that marriage involves. They want to be together in union till death do them part, the same as any heterosexual couple that can't, or doesn't want to, have children.
Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 5630 Location: Inside food!
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:59 am Post subject:
mstice wrote:
As for your final question, however, gay people want to get married because of the complete commitment that marriage involves. They want to be together in union till death do them part, the same as any heterosexual couple that can't, or doesn't want to, have children.
Which means imitate what hetro people do. That's it.
As for the gays who wants to adopt children, all I gotta say is "Gay is a fruitless tree, don't take the fruits of other trees!"
I only have 2 things to say!
First, read all the previous posts, links, books and whatsoever.
Second, a question for mellow,
How do we prevent the extinction of human beings?
who's responsible for it? a group of people? no one? hetros? _________________ "Blogger"
like I said before, Lone, the conservatives pretty much always lose in the long run. That's just how history goes.
I just realized something here.
You keep asking why I stand so adamantly on what's obviously the losing side. Well, there's an old saying. "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Now yes, liberalism will triumph sooner or later, history has shown that. Liberalism will triumph whether anyone does anything at all. Liberalism will triumph if good men do nothing.
If it wasn't a losing battle, I wouldn't know for sure that I was doing the right thing. In short, it is because I know that defeat is inevitable that I will fight. Evil can not be defeated, it can only be slowed down.
Thousand-to-one odds never favor the forces of good.
[img:750:600:eafac9fd9c]http://ragefactor.com/images/bravery.jpg[/img:eafac9fd9c]
[img:750:600:eafac9fd9c]http://ragefactor.com/images/righteousness.jpg[/img:eafac9fd9c] _________________ The pen is mightier than the sword
But the sword is so much harder to silence than the pen.
How do we prevent the extinction of human beings?
who's responsible for it? a group of people? no one? hetros?
It is said that 10% of the world's population are homosexuals and/or bisexuals. That leaves 90% that can mate and produce little younglings. Some places, they're doing a good job. Others, waaaaaaaaay too good. If there's someone/thing to blame it would be the entire human race for slowly (or rather quickly in recent time) building up its own end. _________________
Joined: Dec 12, 2008 Posts: 1004 Location: between reality and lies
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:41 am Post subject:
trueline wrote:
Flaws? just b/c we didn't accept them now it counted as flaw? when ur society allow drinking wines, having oral sex as a matter of taste, having such places as host clubs where hookers buy themselves, having a deep relationship and giving birth before mirrage where some children don't know their real fathers, and many others while knowing their causes to the individuals. Don't you count them as flaws?!
Let us change the flaws first before accepting each other.
And yes we will be together but it'll be the union of ppl following their lust because half of them, if not most, are doing it for enjoyment. And soon we have to accept the forbidden love b/w siblings, mother and son, father and daughter,..etc
No offense. You, mellow, are talking with confidence as if homo ppl born like that. No one born gay. If you brought some theories to support your words then I can bring a thousand of theories that proves the opposite. Its a matter of choice, that's it.
There is a history along with over a 100 years of psychological studies that consider homosexuality a disorder. But now it doesn't consider as disorder, do you know why they changed it? go ahead and make some research for that though you can find the answer if you read the whole posts in this thread.
Their relationships end with nothing but causing them diseases that make them suffer.
When homo guy rapes or molests a hetro boy then this boy for 90% will turn gay. Yesterday I watched a show talking about some stories like that. I don't really need to watch or hear this from anyone since I know ppl have the same experience living around me.
And about homo adobting children, truely if they can't (see I said "can't" not "unable" ) have children then why do they want to make family by force? If you can't bring child by nature then your relationship is wrong. In other words your relationship is against nature.
Let me ask you something..are you gay? i'm guessing no. So how in the world can you speak for the gays??? and yes it is a flaw...you know why? because we want peace when we can't even be kind to those we aren't like us.
That's shallow trueline and that proves that this earth will never have peace so go ahead give me all your excuses on why you feel its right to dis-own someone for what they believe..i don't care..your wrong for thinking of another human-being is a disorder and it makes me soo sad that you guys are so close-minded.
No wonder they kill themselves..with people all over the world calling them a virus who would want to be alive, i had a close friend who was gay and she killed herself because of people who said all the horrible things you just said...
She said she just liked girls and that's how she was, i never told her "ew" or "your a dis-order"..but her family kicked her out, her mother beat her, some kids jumped her and put her in the hospital..he dad raped her..
One day she called me and said, "i'm happy i had one friend in this world...thanks robert"..this she blew her brains out with a double barrier shot-gun.
YOU KNOW WHYYYY?????!!!!! cause no one loved her. cause people like us guys came up with theories on how to be human. She was my closest friend and was like a sister to me and your telling me she was just a unstable girl who was good enough for society?!!! So is cloning against nature?!! no..we say it helps the earth.
Humanity is full of blind people who try and be god. You are not god. don't do his job for him. if you hate gays fine..but i refuse to treat someone as if they are a dis-order just because they are gay.
Give all the theories you want..but how dare you be so mean to gays...its not right.
sorry i was rude...i am..*sigh*
Quote:
As for the gays who wants to adopt children, all I gotta say is "Gay is a fruitless tree, don't take the fruits of other trees!"
I only have 2 things to say!
First, read all the previous posts, links, books and whatsoever.
Second, a question for mellow,
How do we prevent the extinction of human beings?
who's responsible for it? a group of people? no one? hetros?
You to...ultimasome
Of all people i was hoping you would understand
So now gays can't adopt? is this what you are saying? that's just inhuman and it hurts to even try to give an answer but fine i will.
and its humanity they may end us, not one group of people,and our judging which will be the end of us.
We prevent that by giving them the ok to do what the they want(to be human)..let them get married...let them adopt...damn this is not the 1960's people why is it ok to think of these people like scrum.. am i the only one who believes its ok for people to just live without trying to change them for our good??
I'm sorry if i'm rude but...that's just not right guys and it hurts to know that even in the anime world no one gives a cr@p about freedom...only if it works for them
So go ahead have y'all i hate gays party..i'm done speaking my point of view and hearing all this sadness come out of the mouths of people i respect and care for...good day.
Last edited by Mellowthrasher on Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
TL- I'm not even going to address the body of your post. I don't feel that it's worth replying to because it's entirely based in completely outmoded thought and logic
oh really? did you know that most of ppl who are against homo feel the same way toward those who support them ^___^
Emotions do know how to blind the eyes or maybe the truth is too bright for you.
ultimasome wrote:
mstice wrote:
As for your final question, however, gay people want to get married because of the complete commitment that marriage involves. They want to be together in union till death do them part, the same as any heterosexual couple that can't, or doesn't want to, have children.
Which means imitate what hetro people do. That's it.
You stole my line. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 5630 Location: Inside food!
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:05 am Post subject:
Angel_Armz wrote:
It is said that 10% of the world's population are homosexuals and/or bisexuals. That leaves 90% that can mate and produce little younglings. Some places, they're doing a good job. Others, waaaaaaaaay too good..
So it is our and only OUR job to give children and make the gay people rest and put their legs on one another and adopt our fruits.
This only shows how people are selfish and only think of majority neglecting the individual. Its not ok if all the people are gay, but ok if its one or two!!
Its ok to give the innocent children who know nothing and understand so little to some people claiming to be their mother and father while I don't see the other sex. No, my dear, preventing the extinction of humanity is a universe job, everyone's job, not only specific people, unless you are unable to produce. But to say only hetros are enough to bring and do the job, its unfair.
Anyway, this isn't directed to you, Ange.
mellow>>>Oh I'm sorry to disappoint you, but because I have gone into a difficult situation and finally got out of it. I can't stay shut while people like me are being given a damn freedom.
Even if I'm an old hag, I'm not good enough to continue on the line by myself. Help is needed regard the age.
Gays can't adopt because they're not having a natural relationship. Let them grow a womb and start having a real child from their own blood. Its not their right to stop their lives while they have the ability to reproduce, right?
And I never said I hate gay people or look at them like scums. I have gay friends and I respect them very well and more than you do. But what I'm doing is for their own good. I used to be gay and I'm starting to have the same feeling each time I meat a bunch of girls. But I can't stop my life here. I won't be deceived by others saying "Your born gay!". This is ridiculous. Try to think very well at our own lives before thinking of our feelings. Some feelings are wrong. And no matter how hard I try to change my feelings, its for my own good. I haven't been born to put a dot on my own line, that's what I believe. Its your choice whether to agree or not. I'm doing what I see good and you do what you see good. _________________ "Blogger"
Oh my many ppl posted while I'm was typing that one post. It only shows how slow I am ~.~
Mellow> Now calm down. You're really being driven by your emotions and thats why I said let us use our mind in such cases.
Just when did I said homo are disorder? if you read my post well again you'll see that I said there's a history of psychological studies that consider them as disorder. I brought that subject to show you how some researches were made just for their own good, to fullfill their goals. And you accused me being mean, rude, and whats not -______-
When I say I'm against them, it doesn't mean I beat them or eat them after boiling them on hot pot with salad.
Quote:
aren't like us.
Again your talking as if ppl born gay. You're really a persistent fella. Ok let us say that ppl born gay then there are ppl who born with diabetes yet they go cure themselves. Now I'm not saying homo are sick or anything but they need to take therapy. Going to therapies doesn't mean your changing yourselves. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
Joined: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 678 Location: Currently in the Land of Anime and Manga
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject:
ultima- I'm sorry that you think you have a problem. I'm sorry that your culture, like most in the world, thinks that because you have feelings towards the same sex means that there's something wrong with you. There isn't. The idea that you "used to be gay" but don't think you are now even though you still get those feelings when you're around other girls shows that being gay isn't some illness you can just treat and cure. It's a part of who people are and there isn't anything wrong with it. I hope that one day you can see that and be comfortable with that part of yourself, but I understand if right now you can't. And if it actually helps you to be happy, please feel free to dismiss everything I've said.
TL- We don't have to worry about the human race going extinct because of lack of reproduction. Even now when many parts of the world are tremendously overpopulated people are still reproducing like crazy. It's much more likely that the human race will go extinct because we reproduce too much than because we reproduce too little.
The truth is that as much as I'm angry about the world's attitude towards homosexuality and people who are different, I find it much more sad than angering. I feel sorry that so many people feel the need to treat others who haven't hurt anybody like outcasts. I feel sad that in a world with so many relevant divisions people feel the need to make more. Like a lot of people here I was raised in a conservative religious atmosphere where I wasn't asked to think about why we treat others differently, where it was just assumed that some things were bad without explanation. I hope at the very least that this conversation has made you question why you believe what you do, not just about homosexuality but about everything.
Now, for the second time, I'm done. If you really feel the need keep this debate going then you can PM me, but I won't be checking this thread again.
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