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It's not like being the best means you are godlike (no reference to religion) you know?
Most if not all organism are made up of cell, and cells has something call telomeres, which shortens (through cell division and replacement) during aging. When these cells cannot reproduce anymore, the organ, therefore the man dies...
You misunderstand my point. Let me rephrase my question, what is the purpose of death? If I would ask you why we born then I bet you will say to survive but why we die?why our cells cant reproduce anymore and die?Why cant we live forever (and our cells can reproduce or however to live eternity) since nothing will change and we'll still have to survive one way or another? Or why we cant live again or reborn? why this world isn't complete like heaven or be perfect? We survive for what?to live? and the point or the result? I wont take exam for nothing, why would I tire myself and take it from the start. If this exame is about to test me then sure I will but if its only to see wheather I can pass or not without being test of anything then I dont see any point taking that one.
If this life really have no purpose why only us (human being) have the best form among the other creatures? although animals do like what we do to survive then why we're not like them? any reasons behind that?
just cruious, do you think that life(earth or this world) will remain forever and people will reproduce again and again?in case you said yes then untile when?
I know I'm asking alot but thats because I cant understand how can we exist without creator and have no puropse for this life.
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I don't have any sources with me now, because I thought it's more like common knowledge... I can find them easily, but I'm lazy... but then, are you sure you don't know about cell division and natural selection/ evolution of organism?
no I wasn't asking about that but for what you said that we dont have a purpose in this life and we are controlled by brain to survive only .
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Conscience?
well that if they felt like hurting others but when its b/w himself only like lying, cheating and things like that in any situation (which they don't find it wrong or bad to some people) without harming others. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
I kind of agree with their not really being a purpose to life other than the human instinct to survive. I mean, sure, everyone can kind of give themselves their own purpose: 'to be rich', 'to be happy', 'to be famous', but it all comes down to the same result no matter the path you take. The meaning to life is subjective, and can change from person to person.
@ trueline. Well, the things you ask are due to biological impossibilities. I don't think anyone can really truly answer what the purpose of death is, since no one knows what happens when you die. From a logical standpoint, death is necessary to prevent the planet from becoming overpopulated. I don't think we live to solely survive, but I do believe that is the starting point. Every organism grows up with only survival in mind. As we grow up and develop preferences, we all find our individual motivation to live. But survival will always be an issue once it is challenged.
I think that atheists do feel guilty upon committing sins regardless of their belief in god, because we are taught to adhere to cultural norms. Parents will teach us what is right and wrong, and although there maybe instances where we can get awya with it since we don't think anyone is watching, we still know that it is the wrong thing to do.
I personally don't believe in God the way most people seem him as, but I do believe that SOME higher power did create us. I think a big question is 'who created god' and who created the person who created god? This is something that we can't logically answer, which makes me wonder about humans and just how limited we are. Maybe we just aren't smart enough to comprehend god.
In order to live, something must die. The meat you eat are from animals brutally slaughtered. The area you live in, some animals were probably killed when construction workers destroyed the environment there. Humans are always greedy animals whether we acknowledge it or not.
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Crying to gain attention isnt a lie for babies
Yes it is. They're faking it for their own personal benefit.
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The problem is with some Atheists. They start saying religious people are hypocrisy and blah blah blah while they themeselves tell others that no one have the right to say atheists are immoral or judge them on bad things.
They disaprove religion point of view asking for proves while they believe on their thoughts without having the same proves, or any, as they ask for those religions' points.
The problem is with some religious bubs. They start proclaiming their religion is the rightious one and condemn the others to the evil place and call other immoral. And they disapprove of ANY criticism, even the slightest, of their happy religion. Off with the head ... or a limb. Hell, some religious guys aren't tolerable of other religious guy and worst when someone converts like in the case in Afgan where a Muslim man converted to Christianity and many controversy arouse around it.
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one more thing, I was wondering, do atheist feel guilty when they commit sins between themselves without anyone watching him/her? why?
based on what or afraid of what? what makes you feel guilty or afraid since no one know or see you commiting it or even take any bad impression about you?
Do you ever feel guilty for YOUR sins? Come on, atheist aren't the only people that sin. Even the most religious person sins in their life without anyone knowing. I'll speak for MYSELF, I try to do good because I simply want to be a good person to everyone and the world. And I will also admit I've done many bad things in the past and tempted to do worst. What makes me feel guilty? Various reason. Hurting someone, end result will make someone feel miserable, I'm cheating myself and on others, making misleading impression of myself for others, etc.
As for the link, for all we know we could be some sort of alien experiment. _________________
I kind of agree with their not really being a purpose to life other than the human instinct to survive. I mean, sure, everyone can kind of give themselves their own purpose: 'to be rich', 'to be happy', 'to be famous', but it all comes down to the same result no matter the path you take. The meaning to life is subjective, and can change from person to person.
@ trueline. Well, the things you ask are due to biological impossibilities. I don't think anyone can really truly answer what the purpose of death is, since no one knows what happens when you die. From a logical standpoint, death is necessary to prevent the planet from becoming overpopulated. I don't think we live to solely survive, but I do believe that is the starting point. Every organism grows up with only survival in mind. As we grow up and develop preferences, we all find our individual motivation to live. But survival will always be an issue once it is challenged.
I wouldn't ask of death if he said there is a purpose in life. Saying we are created for nothing, doesnt get in my mind. We struggle and survive for nothing? If we're like animal then I wouldnt mind wheather there is a purpose or no because we dont have mind like human or you can say we are in best form, higher level than animals so I cant think, ask, disscuss or anything like Im doing now and all I can think is how to survive like any other animal in this world. I dont mean anything by saying this but this whole life and things happening around us isn't created for nothing/ no purpose.
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I think that atheists do feel guilty upon committing sins regardless of their belief in god, because we are taught to adhere to cultural norms. Parents will teach us what is right and wrong, and although there maybe instances where we can get awya with it since we don't think anyone is watching, we still know that it is the wrong thing to do.
thanks for answering my question ^ ^
I was just wondering though I do really want to comment many things about it but I have to write essay for that and this thread might be on going for pages as what happened in homo, but all what I'll say in this point that atheists dont have specific concepts of wrong or right in general (each has his own). Some of them consider one thing is right while other consider it wrong and thats why I asked wheather they do feel guilty or no and whats its based for b/c some of them find it right by giving excuses and therefore they wont feel guilty or you can say that there is no need to feel guilty over something that you didn't felt it wrong. Well that wont apply to everyone.
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I personally don't believe in God the way most people seem him as, but I do believe that SOME higher power did create us. I think a big question is 'who created god' and who created the person who created god? This is something that we can't logically answer, which makes me wonder about humans and just how limited we are. Maybe we just aren't smart enough to comprehend god.
Our knowlege is limited and all we knew that there is God who created us and to know wheather there are someone created God or no then we have to wait until we meet God first and this wont happened in this life.
AA wrote:
Yes it is. They're faking it for their own personal benefit.
This is more like pretending than lying.
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The problem is with some religious bubs. They start proclaiming their religion is the rightious one and condemn the others to the evil place and call other immoral. And they disapprove of ANY criticism, even the slightest, of their happy religion. Off with the head ... or a limb. Hell, some religious guys aren't tolerable of other religious guy and worst when someone converts like in the case in Afgan where a Muslim man converted to Christianity and many controversy arouse around it.
Your talking about those people who you met in your life and judging all other religious people as hypocrisy and not only that but even the religion itself as you have experienced it for saying that its thoughts or whatever to blind people. Have you met all of them?or experienced or at least knew the all the religion themselves?
and about converting, ISLAM IS NOT A GAME to enter whenever ONE like and get out of it giving silly excuses and reasons that doesnt make a sense at all. As one who converted said Islam is really tiring and have difficult laws or something like that, but looks like that dude forgot that life is complicated and in order to live in peace or living in general (survive) then he HAVE to face dufficulties. Why he dont suicide saying that life is difficult?well blaming other things make one feel relieve.
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Do you ever feel guilty for YOUR sins? Come on, atheist aren't the only people that sin. Even the most religious person sins in their life without anyone knowing. I'll speak for MYSELF, I try to do good because I simply want to be a good person to everyone and the world. And I will also admit I've done many bad things in the past and tempted to do worst. What makes me feel guilty? Various reason. Hurting someone, end result will make someone feel miserable, I'm cheating myself and on others, making misleading impression of myself for others, etc.
Everyone do mistakes and sure I'm one of them, I'm not an angel after all. oh I even forgot that the concepts of sin differe from one to another I bet.
Let me give you example, if one watched porn then sure he wont feel like doing anything wrong at all. Like what is he doing is something natural and no different than eating food or playing football. Would he feel guilty for watching it for whatever the excuses was, fun, learning,..etc
To some people its shameless and immoral but to others its ok b/c they felt that watching it is ok. I know I'm going off topic but this was only an example. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
You misunderstand my point. Let me rephrase my question, what is the purpose of death? If I would ask you why we born then I bet you will say to survive but why we die?why our cells cant reproduce anymore and die?Why cant we live forever (and our cells can reproduce or however to live eternity) since nothing will change and we'll still have to survive one way or another? Or why we cant live again or reborn? why this world isn't complete like heaven or be perfect? We survive for what?to live? and the point or the result? I wont take exam for nothing, why would I tire myself and take it from the start. If this exame is about to test me then sure I will but if its only to see wheather I can pass or not without being test of anything then I dont see any point taking that one.
Ha! I can finally bring my ideas into topic...
To me, the journey is more important than the destination. The life is a journey; the death is a destination. Death is like the last chapter of a book, but what's important is the storyline throughout the book, not just the ending.
Well actually, to me life has a purpose, but while many live for their gods, I live for something else. It's complicated, so I won't explain. Death is like the summary of these efforts put into this purpose.
You take a exam to judge yourself, even if it has no weightage on your future. Same with life, everything you do tests yourself on how great of a person you can be. And when everything summaries up, I dunno if by god, but I meant by yourself and the people around you.
lino wrote:
If this life really have no purpose why only us (human being) have the best form among the other creatures? although animals do like what we do to survive then why we're not like them? any reasons behind that?
I'll have to say this is chace again. We happen to be the species that has (by chance) choose to develop our brain instead of our muscles, size, thickness of hide, etc.
lino wrote:
just cruious, do you think that life(earth or this world) will remain forever and people will reproduce again and again?in case you said yes then untile when?
I know I'm asking alot but thats because I cant understand how can we exist without creator and have no puropse for this life.
I'm a Agnostic, meaning I not sure of the existence of a god, unlike a atheist. What I can tell you is I don't believe in Judgement day in Islam. These are some of the thing that has too much undetermined factors, so I cant answer that question. But I'll say someday earth's resources will be used up, and humans can't live on earth anymore.
When I say there is no purpose in life, I meant that our we are not born with a purpose (which is what asked). Kids without maturity basically have no purpose in life, their purpose is given by their parents to make them happy or to carry on bloodline, or in some extreme cases, to make money. With maturity, no matter the age, I seek out my own purpose in life, it's not something a god can give you, nor probably something he should help you with.
lino wrote:
no I wasn't asking about that but for what you said that we dont have a purpose in this life and we are controlled by brain to survive only .
I guess my above paragraph sorta answer your question... PsiKro helped me explained that part.
lino wrote:
well that if they felt like hurting others but when its b/w himself only like lying, cheating and things like that in any situation (which they don't find it wrong or bad to some people) without harming others.
sorry dun understand... ><
angel wrote:
Yes it is. They're faking it for their own personal benefit.
No... babies instinctively cry when they feel uncomfortable.
PsiKro wrote:
I personally don't believe in God the way most people seem him as, but I do believe that SOME higher power did create us. I think a big question is 'who created god' and who created the person who created god? This is something that we can't logically answer, which makes me wonder about humans and just how limited we are. Maybe we just aren't smart enough to comprehend god.
I think, but not sure, that if god exists, WE created god, not the other way around. It started with faith, then with this much faith contributed by millions of people... it actually existed. you think?
Joined: Dec 26, 2006 Posts: 757 Location: The land of cheese, croissant, wine and love~
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:08 am Post subject:
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I think a big question is 'who created god' and who created the person who created god?
Haha this question will always make me laugh
For the 3 major religion (Judaism, Christianism and Islam ) God ( or whatever u call it ) IS ie he hasn’t been created... God is the eternal essence. The eternity has no beginning nor end. Right ?
Well, I think whatever the theory, evolution, creation or a little of both (I’m refering to agnostics ), no one has an detailed explanation on the Origin. If there were, all the world would already be agree on the existence or not of God.
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No... babies instinctively cry when they feel uncomfortable.
Haha my mum would answer u "u'll understand when u'll have a child"
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Hell, some religious guys aren't tolerable of other religious guy and worst when someone converts like in the case in Afgan where a Muslim man converted to Christianity and many controversy arouse around it.
Can u be tolerant by believing that u have the Truth ?
U sure can’t. If ur goal is to share ur “truth� u’ll probably use every kind of way
Well, if u’re selfish, u’ll think of ur own happiness and let the others in the “bad�
U should try to understand those ppl before saying those kind of things
Of course there’s always ppl who go too far in their beliefs. I won’t say the contrary
U say those believers are not tolerant but are the non-believers tolerants ? Hell no !
But again there’s always few exceptions
To me, the journey is more important than the destination. The life is a journey; the death is a destination. Death is like the last chapter of a book, but what's important is the storyline throughout the book, not just the ending.
Well actually, to me life has a purpose, but while many live for their gods, I live for something else. It's complicated, so I won't explain. Death is like the summary of these efforts put into this purpose.
ending justify the meaning (was the quote like that? xD ) I would say both, the storyline and ending are important. You see the auther writes and the book published to be read and there might be some other reasons, no one would write thick book full of events for no purpose. At least for fun or wanna others to read his thoughts ..etc
We as a human being have a purpose. In other word we were created for a purpose but each individual has his own goals differ than others.
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You take a exam to judge yourself, even if it has no weightage on your future. Same with life, everything you do tests yourself on how great of a person you can be. And when everything summaries up, I dunno if by god, but I meant by yourself and the people around you.
and how am I supposed to know how great person I am without seeing the result of what I did? people will have different view on others and not necessary it should be true. So it end up that all what I did wheather in front of others or between myself went in vain.
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I'll have to say this is chace again. We happen to be the species that has (by chance) choose to develop our brain instead of our muscles, size, thickness of hide, etc.
any proves?
if you believe of chances in life then if I would put a glass full of water on the middle of the table then it drops, will you believe that it dropped by chance? of course you wont, you'll assume anything but not a chance. Then why you bleieve "chance" happens in some cases like we being in the best form and Adam was exist on this earth while in others you disaporove it?
The link jajajajaja07 posted disaprove of something called "chance"
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I'm a Agnostic, meaning I not sure of the existence of a god, unlike a atheist. What I can tell you is I don't believe in Judgement day in Islam. These are some of the thing that has too much undetermined factors, so I cant answer that question. But I'll say someday earth's resources will be used up, and humans can't live on earth anymore.
^ ^
what makes me have more faith of the judgment day, is its signs.
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When I say there is no purpose in life, I meant that our we are not born with a purpose (which is what asked). Kids without maturity basically have no purpose in life, their purpose is given by their parents to make them happy or to carry on bloodline, or in some extreme cases, to make money. With maturity, no matter the age, I seek out my own purpose in life, it's not something a god can give you, nor probably something he should help you with.
These are goals of each one and the purpose and the goals are different. Goals are made by yourself and upon your decision but purpose will be related to the one who created human being and we can't change it.
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sorry dun understand... ><
Am I that bad in explainingT-T
Well an example might work. Lying in small things isn't wrong to some people so they don't feel guilty commenting it because it didn't harm anyone for its being a small thing and might be forgotten the other day. But when they lie and it did hurt others then they feel guilty for it. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
and how am I supposed to know how great person I am without seeing the result of what I did? people will have different view on others and not necessary it should be true. So it end up that all what I did wheather in front of others or between myself went in vain.
I don't mean you won't be able to see the results for yourself, I just mean you don't need a god to justify your actions. People's views are not nessasary be true, but it's how you interact with them and their impression and memories of you; the rest doesnt really matter. If you have talked to a dying relative you may understand what I mean.
lino wrote:
any proves?
if you believe of chances in life then if I would put a glass full of water on the middle of the table then it drops, will you believe that it dropped by chance? of course you wont, you'll assume anything but not a chance. Then why you bleieve "chance" happens in some cases like we being in the best form and Adam was exist on this earth while in others you disaporove it?
The link jajajajaja07 posted disaprove of something called "chance"
Sorry, I missed that post.
For the page in islamherald, with no offence, I find it's all bullshit. It's all twisting the words of scientists and saying all that is unexplained yet to god. It's like primitive ages when men relates every occurance to god; assuming if there's any difference now.
For the page in answersingenesis, it's a rather poor explanation about how amoeba come to exist. I read something that explains that before, but I dont know where or what it is, but it does explains how amoeba does come to exists. That page didnt take into consideration of how the forming of the galaxies and the stability of earth's structure helps promote the birth of the first amoeba.
lino wrote:
^ ^
what makes me have more faith of the judgment day, is its signs.
haha, i meant a different more different kind of "judgement day".
lino wrote:
These are goals of each one and the purpose and the goals are different. Goals are made by yourself and upon your decision but purpose will be related to the one who created human being and we can't change it.
Guess i can't really deny that.
lino wrote:
Am I that bad in explainingT-T
Well an example might work. Lying in small things isn't wrong to some people so they don't feel guilty commenting it because it didn't harm anyone for its being a small thing and might be forgotten the other day. But when they lie and it did hurt others then they feel guilty for it.
eto... so? I dun understand what you're trying to get at...
If you're talking how can atheist can feel guilty, it's just life a reaction what you've cause some form of unhappiness to someone that you doesnt want yourself, and that guilthy feeling comes from the sought for fair treatment.
I don't mean you won't be able to see the results for yourself, I just mean you don't need a god to justify your actions. People's views are not nessasary be true, but it's how you interact with them and their impression and memories of you; the rest doesnt really matter. If you have talked to a dying relative you may understand what I mean.
A result of every deed I do and precisly cannot be seen from people (human being) for that I can be hypocrisy and show them the fake one of myself or they might take a wrong impression on me. Talking about dying person is always done in a good way even if that person was bad.
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Sorry, I missed that post.
For the page in islamherald, with no offence, I find it's all bullshit. It's all twisting the words of scientists and saying all that is unexplained yet to god. It's like primitive ages when men relates every occurance to god; assuming if there's any difference now.
For the page in answersingenesis, it's a rather poor explanation about how amoeba come to exist. I read something that explains that before, but I dont know where or what it is, but it does explains how amoeba does come to exists. That page didnt take into consideration of how the forming of the galaxies and the stability of earth's structure helps promote the birth of the first amoeba.
and what makes you believe in chance?
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haha, i meant a different more different kind of "judgement day".
well....I though you was refferring to the judgment day in Islam...
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eto... so? I dun understand what you're trying to get at...
If you're talking how can atheist can feel guilty, it's just life a reaction what you've cause some form of unhappiness to someone that you doesnt want yourself, and that guilthy feeling comes from the sought for fair treatment.
ok ^-^;; though I meant something else but nevermind. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
A result of every deed I do and precisly cannot be seen from people (human being) for that I can be hypocrisy and show them the fake one of myself or they might take a wrong impression on me. Talking about dying person is always done in a good way even if that person was bad.
Haha, I guess then, your god is same as my conscience. Even without anyone looking, whatever I do I answer to my own conscience. I do think that there may be a "higher power" somewhere, but if I do go to "him" I am not afraid because I can answer to my own conscience.
lino wrote:
and what makes you believe in chance?
Well I can't find any other logical explanation over it. Then it not about whether I believe it or not; it's just... there. It's like putting a bottle in front of me and ask me if I believe the bottle is there... no matrix reference, haha.
Well if you ask me, (probably) God IS chance, Chance IS god, etc. Whenever there's a given chance, it's a god-given. something like that. See?
A result of every deed I do and precisly cannot be seen from people (human being) for that I can be hypocrisy and show them the fake one of myself or they might take a wrong impression on me. Talking about dying person is always done in a good way even if that person was bad.
Haha, I guess then, your god is same as my conscience. Even without anyone looking, whatever I do I answer to my own conscience. I do think that there may be a "higher power" somewhere, but if I do go to "him" I am not afraid because I can answer to my own conscience.
You don't know what'll happen until that moment and conscience can't always lead you to the right thing.
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Well I can't find any other logical explanation over it. Then it not about whether I believe it or not; it's just... there. It's like putting a bottle in front of me and ask me if I believe the bottle is there... no matrix reference, haha.
Well if you ask me, (probably) God IS chance, Chance IS god, etc. Whenever there's a given chance, it's a god-given. something like that. See?
Btw you a saudi arabian too?
I knew that you would said something like that but chance really wont be a proper answer since there isn't anything that proves its existence . I would rather believe anything but not this chance because I find it more like an excuse to relax myself keep my thoughts stable and even with that it couldn't provide a satisfied answer.
If I didn't found better answer then I would stick to this chance ^ ^
God is a creator but chance doesnt creat anything....it is something that we wont see it ..
and *cough* about your last question, unfortunatily I can't answer any question related to location >__>;;; _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
looks like that man forgot that no one born science and thats why man need those guides. As when we go schools, we join it not because we're stupid but to learn things, that can't come to our mind by sitting and waiting, and also not to repeat the same mistakes. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
Sorry, I missed that post.
For the page in islamherald, with no offence, I find it's all bullshit. It's all twisting the words of scientists and saying all that is unexplained yet to god. It's like primitive ages when men relates every occurance to god; assuming if there's any difference now.
For the page in answersingenesis, it's a rather poor explanation about how amoeba come to exist. I read something that explains that before, but I dont know where or what it is, but it does explains how amoeba does come to exists. That page didnt take into consideration of how the forming of the galaxies and the stability of earth's structure helps promote the birth of the first amoeba.
Yeah, i agree, i don't really trust the page from islamherald; thats why i added the more scientific answersingenesis page. just found some random pages that disprove the idea that this universe, this world, and all living things on Earth were not created by chance.
I am going to try to find some more that are much more scientific... if I have the time.
If it was disscusing about "chance" then I bet its going to be worse than what the two links were talking about. _________________
Not all what you think is right is supposed to be right.
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