Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/sessions.php on line 254
Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/sessions.php on line 255
Anime-Source.Com: Forums
Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/page_header.php on line 499
Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/page_header.php on line 501
Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/page_header.php on line 502 Anime-Source.com :: View topic - "Taking Advantage" of someone (revised)
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: "Taking Advantage" of someone (revised)
if you like someone, what exactly is taking advantage? What is the difference between trying to get her to love you, and manipulating her?
Some people believe anything besides being totally honest with someone you like is considered manipulating. Others take to a light to "Hitch" and its methods.
I don't think hearts of girls should be "manipulated" but old-fashioned courting isn't ideal today. Are mind games bad? Is all fair in love and war? Should you feel guilty for being there for her when she needs a shoulder to cry on?
(Revison)
Now, this figuarative girl has feelings for someone else. By leaving her alone for as long as a year, or a day, she could be with this guy. Now, since things are desperate, there is no room for philosophical thinking. Not accepting her feelings for someone else and continuing to vie for her affections, is that manipulation? (assuming slow-mo advances such as offering her coffee, sitting next to her, etc. have become obsolete).
Last edited by mangaddict_reborn on Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Being totally honest can be harmful. Being too manipulative is harmful. I think the solution is, be honest but not totally.
As for courting, based on your actions she will reach the conclusion that you have feelings for her. If you do small-somethings for/with her just as a friend would isn't "suspicious", but if you do these in the right time, in the right place and "frequently" enough she'll get the message. You wasn't totally honest and you wasn't manipulative either. _________________ Dv
Being totally honest can be harmful. Being too manipulative is harmful. I think the solution is, be honest but not totally.
As for courting, based on your actions she will reach the conclusion that you have feelings for her. If you do small-somethings for/with her just as a friend would isn't "suspicious", but if you do these in the right time, in the right place and "frequently" enough she'll get the message. You wasn't totally honest and you wasn't manipulative either.
Yes, that is how things work in the perfect world. Let's get off the subject of actions, and onto the subject of intentions- where it takes more than flirting to get a girl to like you. The world were there is competition in love. You have to be better than the next guy, getting those points quick and fast instead of relying on the universe to work things out for you (it already sounds like manipulation, doesn't it?)
Although this may be off topic, can you be a little more specific maybe? Doing the "right things at the right time at the right place at right intervals" is not an ideal answer that solves problems.
I know I was "a bit" vague, but it was on purpose, because everything depends on the age, the enviroment, etc. Some examples would be inviting her for a coffee, asking her to help you with something or just sitting next to her on a seminar. These are things a "simple" friend would do but if you do these on a regular basis she'll notice that you don't think about her as "just a friend".
Competition. Yes, that's a problem. But I still think you should do what you'd do without competition. She knows there's two (or more) fighting for her. What you should know is that the final decision is hers, and you should accept that even if it's unfavorable for you. If you still go on and do everything to "steal her" then that's manipulating and wrong. You have to accept defeat. In other words just give yourself (and hope she'll like you more), everything else would be manipulating.
And yes, my way of thinking is probably too idealistic. It's due to my age (19) and my personality. Also I didn't have a serious relationship this far, so I can speak only about theories.
And one more thing, I have some difficulty with english recently, and can't express my thoughts exactly. Sorry for that. _________________ Dv
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 8282 Location: stuck in tard tard land
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject:
07cbdj wrote:
What you should know is that the final decision is hers, and you should accept that even if it's unfavorable for you. If you still go on and do everything to "steal her" then that's manipulating and wrong. You have to accept defeat. In other words just give yourself (and hope she'll like you more), everything else would be manipulating.
You think so?
I disagree. If she's made her mind up, then ideally she should stick to it no? Choose her man and thats that no? Well if you are able to "steal" her back, all it means is that she has reconsidered her feelings or you have indeed had a positive effect on her. Its not really 'manipulating', I'm assuming she is fully capable of assessing feelings, situating, people, etc. To what degree is an other matter, and whether she is good at it or not is another... its not as if your using hypnosis to lure her your way or sabotaging the image of the 'competition', your just showing that you indeed like her and want her... nothing wrong with that no?
I dont think its manipulating unless your truely going out your way to hurt and degrade someone. If your just being yourself but putting extra effort to up-stage the other bloke, then thats all good no?
I agree with You, Bowser. Please read the last two lines of my previous post. By the way, if she changes her mind and chooses you instead of the other guy, then that's her final decision.
Quote:
I dont think its manipulating unless your truely going out your way to hurt and degrade someone. If your just being yourself but putting extra effort to up-stage the other bloke, then thats all good no?
Exactly. I forgot to emphasise the do everything part. _________________ Dv
Okay, maybe I should throw something into the mix. This environment is way too phillosophical.
If a girl that you love, that sees you as a friend and likes the competition. Maybe a crush, maybe feelings, one of the two.
I am throwing in words that should be awknowledged and/or addressed
1. jealousy
2. sabotage
3. desperateness
4. lust (that's right, I said it )
When explaining the line between "manipulation" and "playing the game", the word that should not be used is "just". That word just makes things sound concrete and simple.
Now, this figuarative girl has feelings for someone else. By leaving her alone for as long as a year, or a day, she could be with this guy. Now, since things are desperate, there is no room for philosophical thinking. Not accepting her feelings for someone else and continuing to vie for her affections, is that manipulation? (assuming slow-mo advances such as offering her coffee, sitting next to her, etc. have become obsolete).
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 8282 Location: stuck in tard tard land
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:01 am Post subject:
mangaddict_reborn wrote:
1. jealousy
2. sabotage
3. desperateness
4. lust (that's right, I said it )
jealousy is natural in such a situation, desperateness is obviously gonna be felt if time is thought to be running out and lust is always gonna be there, specialy if you cant have her (we all want what we know we cant have~).
As for sabotage, that really depends on what you mean =/
Quote:
Now, this figuarative girl has feelings for someone else. By leaving her alone for as long as a year, or a day, she could be with this guy. Now, since things are desperate, there is no room for philosophical thinking. Not accepting her feelings for someone else and continuing to vie for her affections, is that manipulation? (assuming slow-mo advances such as offering her coffee, sitting next to her, etc. have become obsolete).
Sorta that situation myself. All I do is make it painfully obvious Im jealous =P
And yes, if theres anyway to woo her I'll do it. Simple as that. Its not manipulating, just trying to hook up with girl I like.
I think my manipulation is m_r's sabotage. It's okay not to give up, but going too far isn't good. Like being sly and making a fool out of the competitior or humiliating him. So be fair, do everything that raises your chances, but forget everything that decreases his chances directly. Of course if you'll get higher in her eyes he'll get lower. _________________ Dv
I think my manipulation is m_r's sabotage. It's okay not to give up, but going too far isn't good. Like being sly and making a fool out of the competitior or humiliating him. So be fair, do everything that raises your chances, but forget everything that decreases his chances directly. Of course if you'll get higher in her eyes he'll get lower.
Hmmm, so that's one point of view. I think I need the views of people in love as well as those who aren't.
I've wondered if, as long as you love someone, is anything really manipulation? I'm not talking about the evil creepy guy in the movies that tries to deter true love out of selfishness.
Here's the thing, trying to vie for her affections away from another man is sabotage, no matter what right? Who's to care about what he feels though? He's the enemy. My point being, if you're not willing to sabatage him directly, then you don't love her. Doing anything to get her to like you is manipulation, because you are trying to change how she feels right? So the conundrum would be, you either love her enough to manipulate her, or you don't love her at all.
Joined: Mar 17, 2007 Posts: 115 Location: Home and Any were
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:38 am Post subject:
ohm? I agree of that word how to disadvantages they other's revised words on the topic of these discussion. _________________ [IMG:400:150:c434d4fd77]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/saber_j/vandreadcopy.jpg[/img:c434d4fd77]
ohm? I agree of that word how to disadvantages they other's revised words on the topic of these discussion.
I don't get this sentence. Is he a bot or is my english this poor? o.0
Anyway...
mangaddict_reborn wrote:
Here's the thing, trying to vie for her affections away from another man is sabotage, no matter what right? Who's to care about what he feels though? He's the enemy. My point being, if you're not willing to sabatage him directly, then you don't love her. Doing anything to get her to like you is manipulation, because you are trying to change how she feels right? So the conundrum would be, you either love her enough to manipulate her, or you don't love her at all.
Okay, we are different people with different opinions. I have never experienced the feeling and the desperateness of the situation, thus I tend to mix my "sense of justice", my fairness with the topic. Naturally if you are in love you see everything differently. Your mental state affects how you perceive the world: you are in love and you want to reach your goal (desperatly), by this everything is justified and allowed. The measure of the mental change depends on the individual's personality, and I think, how much you can love someone depends on this too. You may barely change, you may take a new personality (like in School Days) or somewhere between the two.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: Re: "Taking Advantage" of someone (revised)
mangaddict_reborn wrote:
(Revison)
Now, this figuarative girl has feelings for someone else. By leaving her alone for as long as a year, or a day, she could be with this guy. Now, since things are desperate, there is no room for philosophical thinking. Not accepting her feelings for someone else and continuing to vie for her affections, is that manipulation? (assuming slow-mo advances such as offering her coffee, sitting next to her, etc. have become obsolete).
First, you have to define manipulation.
The most applicable dictionary.com definition of manipulation is, "to manage or influence skillfully...in an unfair manner."
The key word is unfair; being unfair is different for different people, since they have different perspectives, morals, etc.
What if the "other guy" actually really likes this girl; you would seem manipulative to him, since it seems like your being unfair by trying to move in on a girl that has "feelings for him" already.
In the specific situation provided by M_R "you" know that:
- she has feelings for another guy
- over time, they could become a couple
- you are trying to get her to like you, desparately? (if you are being desperate that means that you've realized you have very little chance of "getting with her.")
Its evident that you are trying to change the direction of her feelings to yourself.
How you change the direction of her feelings determines whether or not it's manipulation or not.
This is where opinions come in; are your methods/actions unfair or fair?
As said before, what is fair to one person may not seem fair to another.
Manipulation, in my opinion, is determined on the circumstances, feelings between people of interest, and mostly on perceived unfairness.
In other words, whether a person is manipulative is a matter of opinion, or an educated guess if you consider the circumstances, perceived unfairness, etc..
Don't know if I'm making much sense; it makes sense to me anyways...
_____________
And to M_R about the "manipulating the person you love out of love for him/her" scenario.
The thing you should ask yourself is,"is it alright to influence the person I love in an unfair manner because I love that person?"
In my opinion, it depends on the circumstances.
If you know that her judgement or decision could be "harzardous to her health"... then in that situation there would be a "good" reason to manipulate her into choosing a decision with a less harzardous aftermath.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: "Taking Advantage" of someone (revised)
jajajajaja07 wrote:
- you are trying to get her to like you, desparately? (if you are being desperate that means that you've realized you have very little chance of "getting with her.")
That's not really true. Love isn't reasonable (I think this is the right word). You may think you have very little chance with her even if the situation shows the exact opposite. _________________ Dv
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: "Taking Advantage" of someone (revised)
07cbdj wrote:
That's not really true. Love isn't reasonable (I think this is the right word). You may think you have very little chance with her even if the situation shows the exact opposite.
Well, I am talking about the situation given by M_R; its a specific answer not a general one suitable for all situations.
In the scenario it says that the person who wants the girl to like him already sees that the girl likes someone else; that's one reason why the one-sided lover might feel desperate...
Even more than that, he's come to realize that they might actually become a couple after a while, which might make him even more desperate.
Though I suppose there is a possibility that the girl might like the desperate one, which would support your idea that he actually has a good chance; however, the scenario doesn't give enough detail to support this possibility... as far as I see anyways...
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All images and comments are property of their respective owners, all the rest � 2002 by Anime-Source.com.
You can syndicate our news using the file backend.php.
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
By the way, if she changes her mind and chooses you instead of the other guy, then that's her final decision. 
