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Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/page_header.php on line 502 Anime-Source.com :: View topic - Philosophy, Nietzsche, Ãœbermensch...
So, i read the essay..and it really rubbed me the wrong way >_>;
I'll admit i was raised a christian, which is the target group he blames for peoples' weakness, so i may have the very traits he blames christianity of spreading. Contrary to his idea that it's best to leave the strong to be strong, persue their dreams, and leave behind those who are "lazy" or weak, i argue that those who are lazy and weak have their own strengths they bring to the table; while the "strong" man has his own weakness: lack of empathy, or understanding in the view of those which are "weak".
When i read the essay, the picture i saw being described was the young boy, growing up in poverty and succeeding into riches; abandoning his family for being too weak to come up themselves, and not caring for societies' opinions of that action. Granted, that's a very harsh scenario, but it seems as though it'd be very much accepted through that theory.
I'm not extremely close to my family, but i have felt love for others; and that's a feeling i can't abandon. It's completely changed my view of the world, and i'm not longer driven simply to "succeed", but to grow as a person and learn more of people in general. You could call me lazy, you could call me emotionally weak~ as i will cry when i am betrayed by those i love or i see my dreams slipping. I'm ignorant as a person, for i am still fully capable of being blinded by my own anger. I'm not in complete control, but i remember when i was...and i can't say it felt like living.
Maybe it's more "weakness", and me clinging to those simple emotions like sadness, anger, and happiness is simply in the hopes of re-embracing that feeling of love; but these emotions were a gift by finding love, and a gift i'm unwilling to surrender again~ even if it means being binded by society, and acting as a "weak point"...which i don't consider myself being.
Through feelings, even if i haven't experienced what others have, i can tell of situations i believe gave off a similar feeling to what they're experiencing...even if i can't be a person with a similar history, i can be a person to be confided in and find relaxation from. I find in people who are lazy or held down by things in society, they can come out of it all with remarkable strength and perception into things i can only imagine. I believe, contrary to the overman theory, by strengthening our weakest; raising the standards of our society, we'll gain FAR MORE than leaving them behind.
The Germans believed the Jews to be a lesser people, and in response the Jews proved themselves to be far more than the Germans saw them, and developed the first atom bomb. The people called weak, proved that they were more than capable of matching the scientists of the supposed "superior" people. I think it's the same in everyday life: if we could improve life for all, we could find hidden, unkindled talent and abilities.
Almost everyone in the world was raised the same way You were, everyone has been thought (almost) the same values of life. Nietzsche said that these values are not absolute and the problem is the homogenity of humankind. I agree that evolution doesn't affect us the same way as ~4000 years ago. Today we see the world as good and evil, the ancient greeks saw the world as good and bad. Nietzsche argued for the greeks.
His philosophy "leads to chaos", is contradictionary and often mistaken for nazism.
Bah, I'm so tired I can't think.
Later... _________________ Dv
But i'm not even attempting to argue whether it is "good", "evil", "bad", or otherwise. my argument is it leaves people entirely alone for the most part; you are entirely responsible for yourself, and if you fall into laziness, that's your choice and nobody should promote anything different: leave those who lag behind, in the dust, essentially.
I'm not trying to say it's purely Nazi, that's simply a major historical event that everybody can relate to.
But i'm not even attempting to argue whether it is "good", "evil", "bad", or otherwise.
I know I just tried to summarize his philosophy, because the essay focused on the "leave the weak behind" part.
nighthawksw wrote:
my argument is it leaves people entirely alone for the most part; you are entirely responsible for yourself, and if you fall into laziness, that's your choice and nobody should promote anything different: leave those who lag behind, in the dust, essentially.
Yes if everyone would think this way, but Nietzsche saw that it's impossible and he himself pointed out that there were/will be very few who can even come close to the overman. So if You apply his theory to few individuals, than society is in no danger and trough the actions of these individuals it can be improved. Napoleon or Alexander the Great would qualify as being near the overman. An they weren't "bad people".
nighthawksw wrote:
I'm not trying to say it's purely Nazi, that's simply a major historical event that everybody can relate to.
Sure, I just wanted to warn everyone not to lead the topic in this direction. _________________ Dv
But he describes the overman as an improvement, a way to improve society; he speaks of it as the next evolution for people. So his vision isn't for the overman to be a select few, he pictures it for everybody: the ideal path for us all.
Joined: Jan 13, 2006 Posts: 1277 Location: That bight light in the sky with a decaying orbit.
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:
Reminds me of Social Darwinism, terms like robber barren and monopoly are may remind you of the era when this philosophy was put to the test.
as the part of slaves to Christianity, all men serve something. no matter who, they serve something. I would say that we have a choice of masters and it is best to choose a kind one.
He also seemed to make the greatest mistake possible when judging Christianity. He judged it by its followers; the bible states many times that it is impossible to be a good person by the standard it sets.
and a philosophy based of self will power and self serving is destructive. you need only to look at any novel dealing with the Drow of Menzoberranzan or at the earlier depictions of the Klingon in Star Trek. In fact this is the very definition of chaotic evil in D&D.
He is in short too preoccupied with laziness to think of other factors.
you may be able to find some holes in this but give my thought some lee-way for I am writing off the top of my head. if you can expand and alter my ideas to greater acuracy. _________________ If violence isn't the answer, you didn't use enough.
Most people operate under a fundamental misconception:
they believe most if not all people are good
It is saddly verry much not so.
But he describes the overman as an improvement, a way to improve society; he speaks of it as the next evolution for people. So his vision isn't for the overman to be a select few, he pictures it for everybody: the ideal path for us all.
It's true, but it has to start somewhere and then gradually widen. Many who argue for the overman mention some great historical character as the first steps in this improvement. Again I recommend You reading Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment to get a glimpse of the theory in practice. Altough Raskolnikov failed in the end.
Doomsought wrote:
Reminds me of Social Darwinism
There's a great difference. Social Darwinism is about nations/ethnics, the Ãœbermensch theory "applies" to individuals/humanity (depending on the point of view).
Doomsought wrote:
I would say that we have a choice of masters
And who do those masters serve? And the masters of the masters? Altough it's true that everyone serves a master, but isn't it true that everyone wants to to be independent (for some measure)?
Doomsought wrote:
the bible states many times that it is impossible to be a good person by the standard it sets
But what is good? The Holy Bible gives you a definition of good, that's right, but why is that the only good. There can be other definitions that differ from Bible's.
Doomsought wrote:
and a philosophy based of self will power and self serving is destructive
Self serving here doesn't mean that you do everything for yourself, it means you do everything based on your on decisions and not on others bidding. It's not the same as in D&D. See for yourself:
Player's Handbook 3.0 wrote:
Chaotic Evil, “Destroyer�: A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal.
Doomsought wrote:
He is in short too preoccupied with laziness to think of other factors.
No, he's not lazy because that wouldn't improve anything and that would be the point. _________________ Dv
Joined: Jan 13, 2006 Posts: 1277 Location: That bight light in the sky with a decaying orbit.
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject:
the masters I speak of are not always people, they are Ideas and goals.
I you try to be your own master then that becomes your goal, the search itself becomes your master. The search becomes an infinite logical loop at this realization and is futile.
And I was not saying he was lazy, I'm just saying he was so focused on laziness he could not grasp other important factors. _________________ If violence isn't the answer, you didn't use enough.
Most people operate under a fundamental misconception:
they believe most if not all people are good
It is saddly verry much not so.
the masters I speak of are not always people, they are Ideas and goals. I you try to be your own master then that becomes your goal, the search itself becomes your master. The search becomes an infinite logical loop at this realization and is futile.
If those ideas are your own or deemed "worthy" by you, then I say you are your own master.
Doomsought wrote:
And I was not saying he was lazy, I'm just saying he was so focused on laziness he could not grasp other important factors.
I'm stuck here. Could You explain a little more? (Damned English) _________________ Dv
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