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I, for one, really liked the ending. Really liked the entire OAV in fact. Great animation, great style. I'm really looking forward to the OST, is available yet ?
Joined: Jun 15, 2003 Posts: 1715 Location: South East Asia
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:53 am Post subject:
darkhunger wrote:
It's also not a Gundam title (at least, generally not accepted as such by fans), if certain elements are taken out... Namely the spacenoid-Earthnoid conflicts, the political themes, space colonies, Newtypes, etc. Hence why you see so many Gundam fans that are anti-AU.
Irregardless of which, Gundam series in the AU still comes under the Gundam titles acknowledged by its producers Bandai Entertainment, whether any of the masses acknowledge it or not.
darkhunger wrote:
In terms of the chocolate cake, I'd say that without these criticial elements, it's like not making the cake out of chocolate, but with something totally different instead. Of course, each Macross series concentrates itself on certain elements of the "Macross", which is essentially what you do to a chocolate cake by making the cake a different way. But the end result is still the chocolate cake.
This is a restatement of what I said. The core of the the series remains its namesake ( veritechs ). Whether it is good or not, depends on the sum of the qualities of its core and the side garnishes.
darkhunger wrote:
So the difference in opinions in here is that you only seem to consider the Macross franchise as a war story with Valkyries... IMO that's just not what Macross is about, because its not any different from any other mecha series in that case. Macross as a franchise stands out and is unique because of its use of all its elements which the original established, whether its done well or not. So ignoring them is like making an ice-cream cake instead of a chocolate cake IMO.
Why are you intent on portraying me as a Macross = "only valkyrie" story? I said the core the of Macross is the valkyrie story, its side dishes of relationships and interactions boost the worth of the Macross story.
I have said it so many times and it seems that the only thing people are going against me is just because I acknowledge what is the 'namesake' of the Macross story, the thing that readily comes to mind in most people's head when Macross is mentioned, not otakus, not rabid Minmei fans, but the masses of people who have catched and followed Macross, some who do not favour Macross, some who love Macross, some who prefer other series to Macross, some who watched it but gave no damn on it, some who dismiss it as a cartoon, etc. That symbol when shown to them will make them readily say "That is Macross ( or Heavens to Betsy.... Robotech )" and it is the VF-1 series Veritechs.
I love Macross as a whole but just because I acknowledge it being readily evident on what is on the masses' head, I keep getting attacked for not conforming to the otaku's worship of an 'imaginary core' of what the core of Macross is not? Can someone honestly prove to me when you remove the veritechs and the war story, you can call the series Macross instead of developments that can be found in any other series?!
Comparisons with the Gundam series, you strip away all the veneers of their side developments and central story away, you are left with the Veritechs and Gundams. Indisputable is the fact that they are different mecha designs though they are of the same genre. The truth being their names are both symbolised mainly by their mechas and central stories. The same chocolate cake but one is round and one is square, but still the same chocolate cake. Taking away all the side dressings still allows them to be readily differentiated as Macross ( round chocolate cake ) and Gundam ( square chocolate cake ). The illustration only serves to reinforce my point all along, the central core is the mechas and war stories and the 'side dressings' serves to boost the quality of the core in different ways.
Yebyosh wrote:
Uh, enlightenment is an achievement of the mental state involving the way of thinking. From the readings of Gundam sites, NewTypes are mainly physically evolved (in brains and body) due to the years of living in zero-G environment. They are not 'NewTypified' to be enlightened so as to speak until they realise later on just as anyone, the futility of war, hate, revenge, blah, blah blah
darkhunger wrote:
This is only Zeon Daikun's theory though (which initially was accepted by everyone)... In actual practice its quite different, and idea of Newtype evolved over the series too, and it is Gundam X that eventually established that Newtypes are due to mutations under changing conditions, which is pretty much what you said.
Gundam FAQs from Anime Village wrote:
Q. What are newtypes?
A. In theory, a newtype is a human being with heightened awareness and empathic powers. According to the martyred visionary Zeon Daikun, the evolution of newtypes is a natural result of humanity's migration into space, and this new breed of empaths will bring about peace and spiritual enlightenment.You needn't watch a lot of Gundam before realizing how far wrong he was. In practice, the most significant trait of newtypes is that they make great mobile suit pilots.
While the manifestation of newtype powers varies from person to person and series to series, in general newtypes have superhuman reflexes and a "danger sense" that alerts them to ambushes and sneak attacks. They are capable of certain forms of empathy, telepathy and emotional rapport, especially with other newtypes, and their powerful brainwaves allow them to use a variety of specialized weapons and control systems.
As 'englightenment' means the realisation of the futility of war ( to keep it simple ), whatever Zeon Daikun says, the NewTypes have with their abilities kept on fighting and destroying until one final moment where they finally realised the futility and gain 'enlightenment' ( and even so, for only some of them ). This already shows their abilities are not granted from 'enlightenment'. 'Englightenment' is not being a NewType.
darkhunger wrote:
I thought Taoism's main goal is to achieve perfect balance between yin and yang and not stray from the "tao"? And doesn't Taoist teachings promote reincarnation for all beings which essentially implies an immortal spirit?
Learned this stuff in high school, so I am not totally clear on it.
There is a common misconception of the Way of the Tao equals the Taoist mythology. It is similar to how one confuses the teachings of Buddha as the religon where one worships Buddhas.
Taoist mythology takes the way of the Tao and makes it into a means to immortality through the cultivation of self by their concept of the 'way'. Taoist mythology had both reincarnation and immortality, being 'good' in the way will earn you immortality, being an evil person earns you the punishments meted out in the Eighteen Layers of Hell, of which certain layers had you going out to be reincarnated after your punishments, if you were deemed bad enough to had any. Some punishments are endless cycles in nature, meaning eternal torment. Some punishments are your reincarnations, like being borned crippled or in disastrous social condition or even reincarnated as an animal.
The way of the Tao never promoted reincarnation ( as far as I can remember ) but acceptance of the cycle of birth and death.
For a look at Taoist mythology, take a reading of the Chinese classics "Journey to the West" and "Creation of the Gods"
Last edited by Yebyosh on Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 15, 2003 Posts: 1715 Location: South East Asia
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:58 am Post subject:
Frundock wrote:
I, for one, really liked the ending. Really liked the entire OAV in fact. Great animation, great style. I'm really looking forward to the OST, is available yet ?
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:09 am Post subject: macross ... a sheeeeeeeeeeeeer pleasure for da eyes
yep .... i havent really bothered tooooo much about the story line but man the visuals are freaking well done! the story aint too bad but the time limit for one episode is killing! but then again these are all jus the usual moanings!
Joined: Nov 12, 2004 Posts: 3468 Location: Cocytus
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:17 am Post subject:
Since Macross Zero is the prequel of the Macross series, many would have guessed the ending for Zero. The only thing i can complain is the episodes are too short. i know how tough doing superb 3d animation like this takes a lot of time and hard work, just that they are too short..
Yukikaze's animation may not be as realistic as Macross Zero, i still find the story more interesting than Macross since nearly all Macross series have to involve songs. _________________ What's yours is mine, what's mine is still mine.
Joined: Nov 12, 2004 Posts: 3468 Location: Cocytus
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:24 am Post subject:
Yebyosh wrote:
No pop music. You get a naked diva singing an opera instead .
You just spoiled the good part...
I think i've heard the song somewhere, maybe church? Every Macross series has to relate to music somehow but at least this time no Green Giants around. ^_^ _________________ What's yours is mine, what's mine is still mine.
Thats good, So far the only macross series I liked the music from was Macross plus because it was a real music directer. So this series takes place before the alien space fortress crashes on to macross island? One thing I never got through the macross series since they were all incoherent I couldn't watch most of them all the way through. Comparing Robotech to Macross when exactly was Macross city destoyed or was it? I get kinda confused because the macross is still there crashed on the planet.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: Uhmm
Well....the story is slow at first but the it's getting intense......but the animation,drawing,cg,graphic is the best than the previous macross ever release.
Joined: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 3228 Location: Jack lives here
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:12 am Post subject:
wow some serious postage going on from Yebyosh, kudos man. i think i'll trust AlDim and postpone dowloading this. i read what he had to say on the GITS threads and pretty much agreed. im getting Macross PLuss first. macross has always been a curiosity. remember seeing mad promos of it on a street fighter VHS when i was a wee kid (7-10 years). hehe GITS has a place in my mostalgia too. a real midnight weird out for an impressionable 8 year old me. half of it was: "wow! so thats what girls look like without clothes!" lol
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It is similar to how one confuses the teachings of Buddha as the religon where one worships Buddhas.
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