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Destiny was awesome at the beginning, but I hated the way it went around episodes 34-38. Those episodes weren't bad themselves, but took the series in a diresction that was just... bleh.
I know perfectly why you think that way. I guess I am fortunate because my main focus of GSD is on the politics and not on the main character, Shinn, who is an egotistical brat who is impossible to like . Actually, my most favorite character in GSD is Chairman Dullindal. I loved his subtle, yet intelligent political manipulations, and I deem Shinn (as well as others such as Ray, Meer et.c.) as 'pawns' to his schemes. In an other word, I see this show as an 'irony' story, so to speak. Irony = no hero. The villain is the main character, and other major characters are his victims.
I am probably one of the very few minorities of the non-fanboys who loved the story of GSD. I know, everywhere I go and I said I loved GSD, people thought I am crazy
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You should finish Turn A. I got stuck in the middle of Zeta, I am planning to pick it up again. Looks promising.
Yeah, I will finish it one day. But I must wait until I am in a right mood to watch it. At the moment, I am in a mood for something cheesy/daft/funny ... not substantial and serious
I know perfectly why you think that way. I guess I am fortunate because my main focus of GSD is on the politics and not on the main character, Shinn, who is an egotistical brat who is impossible to like . Actually, my most favorite character in GSD is Chairman Dullindal. I loved his subtle, yet intelligent political manipulations, and I deem Shinn (as well as others such as Ray, Meer et.c.) as 'pawns' to his schemes. In an other word, I see this show as an 'irony' story, so to speak. Irony = no hero. The villain is the main character, and other major characters are his victims.
A sensible position, but I personally think that it is missing the big picture. There was a lot more to GSD than the "political side" of the story, and since that was not done well, GSD was, to me, not done well.
I also have a hard time conceiving of Dullindal as THE main character. He was A main character, but he spends a lot of time in the background. GSD is not really about him, although the guy is around the entire time. Now, Dullindal was not a bad character, but I also think he was underused. In the series it it hinted that he was connected to the Break the World incident; I would have liked this to be clearer. I think it would have helped increase his "manipulative/ machiavelic" side. Second, his destiny plan was introduced abruptly, to the point where it was absurd to me to see people tag along with it. I expected to see some resistance and him actually saying what's so good about it. Let's not forget that in his mind Dullindal was acting for the good of mankind, not because he wanted to rule over the world or something. He suppossedly did what he thought was right, but it was conveyed badly (mostly because the focus of the show had shifted to how the Archangel and orb were "righteous"). I would have liked to see him subdue the resistance to him not only with force, but also with machinations. That is what a "manupulative" character is suppossed to do! Through a big part of the series ZAFT goes around "liberating" EA territories. Although many (if not most) are bound to fall under his sway, by the end of the series the guy precticaly rules the world. I found that extrapolation nearly as naive as making Relena Queen of the World in Gundam Wing. It should have been more complicated then that. Aside form Orb (and a lukewarm background mention of scandinavia) NOBODY opposed Dullindal. that is stretching it; I would have liked to see him confront some oposition.
Also on the political side, the "no clear-cut good guys" seen on Seed was dumped. The Earth Alliance was demonized and became the outright bad guy without anything remotely good going for it. They could have done better.
GSD had a bad scripting. Too much changes and the director let his wife do a lot of the script which messed it up a lot. Too much useless characters in the show that served no purpose other than to attract squealing fanboys and girls. _________________
I found that extrapolation nearly as naive as making Relena Queen of the World in Gundam Wing.
Oh please, do not compare Destiny to that retarded Gundam Wing. Now, I know that you do not think of GSD highly, but at least it is the fact (which is very visible) that the characters in Seed Destiny at least do have much higher IQs than the characters in Wing Queen Relena is such an stupid character, but truth be told, she is the reason why I could bother to finish that awful series. Every time she came out on the spotlight and babbled her 'total pacifism' ideal, I just couldn't help but laughed at her idiocy. Oh, I also laughed at three characters as well: Heero, Zech Marquise (Relena's brother), and Wu-Fei ... but only in few occasions when they did something extremely stupid.
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It should have been more complicated then that. Aside form Orb (and a lukewarm background mention of scandinavia) NOBODY opposed Dullindal. that is stretching it; I would have liked to see him confront some oposition.
I will come back to this argument in a few days (have got to prepare to fight back *lol*) _________________ [IMG:205:157:4263622574]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/charn/suzumiya-ep04-02.gif[/img:4263622574]
GRC's Anime Collection
Sorry to make some of you cry but wing is overrated.
*hands out tissue to crying kids*
Characters are as 2-D as mario in his early days. Most were just there to attract fan girls. Likely every gundam series, there were no "good or bad" characters. But in wing, they took this literally but having the main characters switch sides ever so often. Its like taking a step in the US and then back in to Canada and repeat that as much as you can.
Gundams in Wing were over powered in my opinion. The gundanium (sp) made the gundam so god-like that I got turned off when trying to re-watch the series after many years. And hearing the VAs (both english and jap) saying "ITS A GUNDAM" is like hearing the character of Inuyasha shouting out "*insert character name*"
Well just like to speak out.
GRC- Well take your time, if your debate is good and interesting I'll jump in. _________________
Oh please, do not compare Destiny to that retarded Gundam Wing. Now, I know that you do not think of GSD highly, but at least it is the fact (which is very visible) that the characters in Seed Destiny at least do have much higher IQs than the characters in Wing
I have to admit that I still prefer GSD to wing, but if there is something I have to give to wing is consistency. It started dumb and naive, and it ended dumb and naive. Gsd started serious and complex, and ended dumb and naive, which is my gripe against it.
Anyway, We all can Agree that GW characters are weak at best. In terms of development they get probably less than Shinn Asuka, who got nothing. the political side was laughably simple-minded, the characters were hateful, static and "oh-so-idealistic/chivalric" that they were hard to relate to, much less like. I have a low opinion of GW.
I miss Kaykay... It was fun to argue against her about GW. I wish she could hear me now.
Leo- Katsu is a GW fan. You could get him to defend GW from our criticism.
Now another point about GSD:
Kira is too god-like. Notice how when he gets SF, some choir-like music in the back ground are playing. This doesn't happen for Destiny or IJ or any other gundams. Often he considers his actions good and are somewhat forceful. Hes lack of emotions makes him seems less human-like compare to how he was in Seed. Heck, in battle he was basically invincible. Nobody could've put up a decent fight with him when he was in freedom. And don't get me started when Shin pwn him cause its just an excuse for Kira to lose Freedom to get SF. And even more pwnage, the SF never got scratched or harmed in any battle. _________________
Leo- Katsu is a GW fan. You could get him to defend GW from our criticism.
Oh, I forgot! Katsushiro! helloooooo!
Now another point about GSD:
[quote[Kira is too god-like. Notice how when he gets SF, some choir-like music in the back ground are playing. This doesn't happen for Destiny or IJ or any other gundams. Often he considers his actions good and are somewhat forceful. Hes lack of emotions makes him seems less human-like compare to how he was in Seed. Heck, in battle he was basically invincible. Nobody could've put up a decent fight with him when he was in freedom. And don't get me started when Shin pwn him cause its just an excuse for Kira to lose Freedom to get SF. And even more pwnage, the SF never got scratched or harmed in any battle.[/quote]
That's true, and that is also a weak point of the series. I wouldn't mind it if he were "good", bu god-like is a bit over the top, considering GS' more down-to-earth approach. It wouldn't have surprised me if it were the more reality-pushing GW, but it was not good in the case of GSD. I hated how in GSD Kira was right because... he was kira. Sorry, but that is just not the way it works. he was suspicious of Dullindal. Nice and valid, but I thought that his "I'll PWN you if you're doing batte" reasoning dumb too. Doesn't he get that ZAFT and the EA are fighting because they on't want to reconcile? beating the crap out of everybody is not going to change that.
Flay is not evil from MY view. She is simply lost, ignorant and does not understand the situation that was happening. All that matter to her was only those close to her. She simply needed something to open her eyes. The death of her father open her to harsh reality. But instead to caused it created her to contribute more hate. She manipulated Kira to get what she wanted (revenge on ZAFT). With Cagalli in scene, it was a threat to her powers on Kira. She basically controls Kira with emotions.
Now half way in the series, she realize her wrong doings. She tries to change for the better and wanted to apologise to Kira but it was already too late (well if you watched Seed then you know why). During the course of the series, when she experience being in Zaft, she finally understand the hardship and tragedy of war. In the begining, she was all blue-cosmos. During the nuking of Boaz, you can see the emotions she felt seeing the base destroyed by the warhead.
Now the sad part is here.
When Flay died in the hands of Rau, she appeared to Kira. Not as a ghost but perhaps as a conscious that she wanted to let him know she was sorry. In the end, she was finally able to express for thoughts and understanding.
I'm like one of the few that prefer KiraXFlay -_- _________________
Actually, to air my point. I don't like SEED. I liked Wing better, not because it is my favorite Gundam series. The gundams in Wing are not overpowered, they are just specimens of advanced technology. It's the technology which determines it, before the middle of the story, the gundams are out classed by new models of mobile suits. But upgrades have been put and the gundams outclassed the other mobile suit models.
As for the pilots, I'll prefer a pilot that is talented and experienced rather than genetically enhanced. That's why I prefer Heero over Kira. Heero is portrayed as a cold person but it is not the case. Heero never lets his emotions get the better of him in a battle. He also experienced the pain of loss and defeat. Kira, on the other hand is portrayed as a god while fighting and as a human after. BTW, how did Kira won against Rau? It is luck. If Rau targeted Freedom's cockpit, he could have killed Kira. BTW, no amount of genetic engineering can match years of experience and maturity.
Flay did hurt Kira but she wanted to apologize and she was killed before doing it. No person is bad, it is the things happened that made them to the person they are. _________________
誠
Definately Seed-Destiny is the best for me.
Some new story here and there, but unlike other gundam series, its a continuation of the previous story, so we already know most of the characters, their special traits and abilities, which means --- faster story progression, less confusion, less time spend on introduction, and so on.
I will have to admit that the ending wasnt really all that great(even the plus) but I still loved the story and the new music and such. I liked seed - but I was glad that I watched seed so I could enjoy destiny. That pretty much sums up my view on two animes.
Oh btw, Kira's own theme music is called "Kira, do as he wishes"
Joined: Dec 23, 2006 Posts: 236 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject:
Cosmic era for me to cos of Gundam seed and Destiny. It really gave me the emo feeling
And i really couldn't stop watching Gundam seed/Destiny
But am i the only one thinking kira walks/sit around like a gold geezer at the start of GSD ?
And about flay, Aaah the sweet moment i waited for when her shuttle got shotted down I was actually happy than. Like thumbsup finally the evil backstabing bitch is down. Even tho she changed for the good at end. It's still wrong the way she used Kira.
And if you think of it Kira should of really be dead. How on earth can he survive a Gundam exploding right in front of his cockpit(aegis)? Most normal mobiel suit from zaft/earth forces just explodes when being hit once or shot once. But the Gundams, a arm or limb doesn't even matter. But meh, guess there wouldn't be much story left if he died.
And what's the use of the head on a Gundam? I regulary see a head being knocked off or blast off. And the Gundam still keeps on fighting, if it just for cosmetics? Tho if you think of it, a gundam without a head would look odd.... _________________ [IMG:430:120:e3eaef3cc8]http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s100/Sephi2K7/Signature/Yurisigv1b.jpg[/img:e3eaef3cc8]
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. Actually, my most favorite character in GSD is Chairman Dullindal. I loved his subtle, yet intelligent political manipulations, and I deem Shinn (as well as others such as Ray, Meer et.c.) as 'pawns' to his schemes. In an other word, I see this show as an 'irony' story, so to speak. Irony = no hero. The villain is the main character, and other major characters are his victims.
I was actually happy than. Like thumbsup finally the evil backstabing bitch is down. Even tho she changed for the good at end. It's still wrong the way she used Kira.
