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Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/anime/public_html/banzai/header.php:34) in /home/anime/public_html/banzai/includes/page_header.php on line 502 Anime-Source.com :: View topic - Debate - Japan to be in the UN Permanent Security Council?
Do you support Japan in this issue, or agaisnt it?
Yes, let Japan be one of them.
28%
[ 6 ]
No, no way it can become one!
38%
[ 8 ]
Don't care.
33%
[ 7 ]
Total Votes : 21
Author
Message
CGY Jigoku Sensei
Joined: Apr 30, 2005 Posts: 13130 Location: The depth of hell...
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject:
Fukui wrote:
CGY wrote:
Well, which one represent the most population wins, and that would be the governement of mainland China.
it does appear that way... since this world is all about economics.
here's a history lesson for ya for interest's sake as i think most posters here are quite young and may not be aware.
the permanent security consil position which the government of mainland China (Ppl's Republic of China) now holds used to belong to the Republic of China (the current gov of Taiwan). After the Republic of China got ousted to Taiwan in the late 40's, from then on to the 70's, they retained that position. Yes, a permanent security consil member with a territory about the size of lake Ontario.
It is only when countries started realizing the potential of a mainland China that they can do business with, that they pushed for the recognition of the communist gov on the mainland. The Republic of China left the UN as it looked that other nations would switch sides for their own benifit. I guess the US felt some guilt for deserting a former war ally, and that is why the Taiwan relations act was passed, ambiguosly helping to defend Taiwan.
Anyway, the only reason that Taiwan is still separate from mainland China is the interferrence of USA. And the only reason they did that is that the government of mainland China is a Communist party.
man, I dont claim to be a military expert, and I dont read Jane's defense mag on my spare time... but from what I've read of news reports on gov/think tank assesments and stuff, certain things are not exactly as you described.
Government think tanks have a way of vastly overrating an enemy's threat, in order to almost demonize them and create fear. Remember Iraq?
Fukui wrote:
first of all, China CAN take Taiwan. Taiwan's own military estimates that it would take the US 2 weeks to respond to any call for help, and that Taiwan can barely make that 2 weeks at best. In any case, they're not optimistic.
Well with this you may have a point since a recent poll done on Taiwanese below the age of 21 found out that an alarming 65% of them were not willing to take up arms to defend their nation should China attack. Still, Taiwan will have to be taken not through a land invasion, but through a blockade and air campaign to force its people to turn on their own government in order to surrender.
Fukui wrote:
And according to American thinktank estimates (read: American), China's military strength will surpass the US anywhere from 15 years to 20 years and up. China actually has good planes. They get most of their stock from Russia, and they've being making their own models in imitation of some of the Russian Su fighters. whatever the case, the air supremacy that Taiwan had enjoyed over the past 50 years is over. Taiwan is now at best equal with China (even with the F-16s and the Mirage fighters).
The American think tanks are vastly overrating China's military capabilities or they're just underrating our own. China does have good planes, but just not in abundance compared to the bulk of their Air Force. The Sukhoi 27's and 30's from Russia are among the best planes in the world, but few elite units within the Chinese Air Force operate them in any significant numbers. They produced two advanced planes of their own, the J-10 (supposedly comparable to the Eurofighter and Rafale) and the FC-1 (knocked down F-16), but those are recent and their production life is going to be in the hundreds. Thousands of planes in the PLAAF are 50 year old Mig 21's and their Chinese variations of the original design. Furthermore, the Chinese pilots can't compare.... I believe even the best units get only 100 hours of flying time a year. In comparison, an average US Air Force pilot gets 200+ hours and Israeli pilot, 250+ hours.
Fukui wrote:
Taiwan recently finished reducing its military personnel as well. Its about reducing the numbers of useless units so that on the whole the military becomes stronger and more efficient. Same thing that China is doing.
China's invasion strategy is basically missles. missles to blockade the island from the outside, "decapitation" tactic to get rid of TW leadership, and destroying as many military assets as possible. Then urban warfare.
But trust me, the TW people wont resist much. The country is split on the re-unification issue and the last thing that chinese ppl want to do is to kill one another. People have relatives on both sides. Once China gets into TW proper, it will be over.
I highly doubt there's going to be any sort of land combat, but rather China trying to starve the Taiwanese into submission.
Fukui wrote:
and of course, this is just what I think as a Taiwanese. As I said, I'm no expert on military affairs so don't take my disagreements the wrong way.
No biggie.... what's the point of having a discussion if we all just agree.
Fukui wrote:
[just for interest's sake....A while ago, in the media frenzy caused by the assesment that Taiwan wouldn't last 2 weeks, a military personnel in a move to calm nerves, mentioned that Taiwan could aim missles at the three gorges dam, the destruction of which will kill millions of civilians. China responded by saying that this would be repayed by nukes.]
Seems every country has that one military nut that screws things up.... from that American general who compared our war in Iraq to a "Holy War" to that crazy Chinese general who mentioned something about attacking America if we violate their interests. Firstly, I highly doubt that Taiwan has the ability to launch an attack on the Three Gorges and second if they did, China would pretty much unleash enough nuclear weapons on Taiwan to make it a crater, since Scientists estimate, if the Three Gorges Dam collapses, over 12 Million people will die along with a complete collapse of the Chinese economy. China will pretty much have nothing to lose by then and will just look for vengeance in the form of nuclear weapons.
Joined: May 09, 2003 Posts: 170 Location: Ynys Mon
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject:
I still think that some form of land combat will be needed (after initial island isolation) as the faster China wins, the lesser the chance of outside interference from say US. Taiwan conducted anti-special ops and anti-paratrooper war games just 2 days ago, suggesting perhaps that they forsee the use of them?
Joined: Apr 30, 2005 Posts: 13130 Location: The depth of hell...
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject:
Fukui wrote:
I still think that some form of land combat will be needed (after initial island isolation) as the faster China wins, the lesser the chance of outside interference from say US. Taiwan conducted anti-special ops and anti-paratrooper war games just 2 days ago, suggesting perhaps that they forsee the use of them?
but anyway Lysol, hats off to ya.
Well, that would be interesting! If there is any war going on, well, you can surely expect to see USA involved!
Joined: Jul 27, 2005 Posts: 34 Location: South of the border..... THE canadian one that is!
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:16 am Post subject:
Meh I think they should have a large voice in the security council they do have a large econmy, but if they do accept them then perhaps other countrys will try to get in on that too so I dunno.
Meh and war crime thing if the USA lost then they would be the ones "attoning" for their crimes. "War does not determine who is right or wrong only who is left"
Meh I think they should have a large voice in the security council they do have a large econmy, but if they do accept them then perhaps other countrys will try to get in on that too so I dunno.
Meh and war crime thing if the USA lost then they would be the ones "attoning" for their crimes. "War does not determine who is right or wrong only who is left"
That doesn't erase the fact that the Japanese commited atrocities on the same scale both in cruelty and size as the Nazi's. Imagine if Germany refused to acknowledge the Holocaust existed and its leaders worshiped the likes of Hermann Goering. Your logic that war erases the line between wrong and right, with the victor taking in the spoils is a faulty one. History remembers cruelty no matter who the victor was.
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