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that's what iv'e never understood about religion, with all the different faiths out there, how are you supposed to know what god truly intends for the human race......assuming that god exists.
chingu wrote:
Yeah, I agree that life is a journey to reach somewhere, though. It's how you live your life along the way that determines if you were really alive in the first place. The meaning of Life can be as simple or as complicated as you make it out to be, and a few jaded individuals don't believe there's any meaning outside of biological necessities --- which I feel would be pointless if that's all there was to it.
all you have to do is look at the animal kingdom, which man is a part of and you will notice that everything in the kingdom follows the same goals in life, the only difference is that humans don't have designated breeding seasons which make it difficult for people understand the biological reason for existence.
quosimos wrote:
yah even though you said you meant no offense, you called them ignorant
yeah, i probably shouldn't of, but the majority of relegious people iv'e met are ignorant and have no problem in telling me that im going to burn in hell. so yeah i guess i was kinda speaking from a personal agenda there and i apologise if i offended anyone. _________________ [img:350:100:b9d927e767]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/tehalbino/gaara2.png[/img:b9d927e767]
Joined: Jul 15, 2005 Posts: 1876 Location: your guess is as good as mine
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:21 am Post subject:
Happy_Dojo wrote:
quosimos wrote:
yah even though you said you meant no offense, you called them ignorant
yeah, i probably shouldn't of, but the majority of relegious people iv'e met are ignorant and have no problem in telling me that im going to burn in hell. so yeah i guess i was kinda speaking from a personal agenda there and i apologise if i offended anyone.
What makes religious people so ignorant in your opinion, enlighten me as i am a somewhat religious person and would like to know what makes me so ignorant ?.
i never said all regious people are ignorant!!!!!, i said the majority iv'e met, so unless iv'e met, which i doubt im not calling you ignorant. and to answer your question the majority iv'e met push they ideals and beliefs upon me despite the fact i tell them i dont believe, then they continue to hound me trying to convert me. they refuse to listen to my views on life and the after life and label me an antichrist, which im not i just have different opinions, will they listen or accept that..... no they wont. so if you follow the same approaches as i have stated then yes i am calling you ignorant. _________________ [img:350:100:b9d927e767]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/tehalbino/gaara2.png[/img:b9d927e767]
Joined: Jul 15, 2005 Posts: 1876 Location: your guess is as good as mine
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:55 am Post subject:
Happy_Dojo wrote:
i never said all regious people are ignorant!!!!!, i said the majority iv'e met, so unless iv'e met, which i doubt im not calling you ignorant. and to answer your question the majority iv'e met push they ideals and beliefs upon me despite the fact i tell them i dont believe, then they continue to hound me trying to convert me. they refuse to listen to my views on life and the after life and label me an antichrist, which im not i just have different opinions, will they listen or accept that..... no they wont. so if you follow the same approaches as i have stated then yes i am calling you ignorant.
Im not ignorant then, i havent seen alot of religious ppl where i live push their ideals unless its those morman ppl or those ppl that knock at your door, doesnt realy matter, i just slam the door in their face.
well then, you and i should get along just fine _________________ [img:350:100:b9d927e767]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/tehalbino/gaara2.png[/img:b9d927e767]
that's what iv'e never understood about religion, with all the different faiths out there, how are you supposed to know what god truly intends for the human race......assuming that god exists.
Looking at what's already happened in the past and what's presented now are both good ways in finding clues to that answer. Don't you think that if God exists, He would've left things for us to find? Some answers could be staring right at you, but you don't see them unless you search for them first and realize that they are answers. And believe it or not, there are sign posts to direct you. The truth never changes, no matter what a person's perception of it is. Thinking about the way things are and why they are the way they are can sometimes give you more in the way of answers than you might expect.
Happy_Dojo wrote:
all you have to do is look at the animal kingdom, which man is a part of and you will notice that everything in the kingdom follows the same goals in life, the only difference is that humans don't have designated breeding seasons which make it difficult for people understand the biological reason for existence.
That's the problem with looking at any given area: people have the tendency to look at them from only one angle. Didn't you know that the Animal Kingdom is part of a taxonomy that man created for himself? Do you really think that the Animal Kingdom is the entire answer to who we are?
Even procreation serves more of a purpose other than to simply procreate. What's the point in having procreation in the first place? Is it really simply to carry on genetic material? What would be the point in that? Animals, outside of humans, procreate in order to carry out a larger purpose. Flies, for example, don't breed and lay eggs just because they want their genetic material to continue onto the next generation. That would be pointless. They breed and lay eggs so that the next generation can carry on with their life's purpose. For flies, that purpose is to live as only they can live, for the purpose of serving a place in nature: wouldn't you agree that one of nature's garbage disposal units serves a great purpose in life? Without that purpose, flies would no longer need to exist, and so they would cease to exist. If the continuation of their genetic material was all there was to it to the meaning of their simple lives, they would continue to exist without purpose. But history and the nature of life contradicts that concept. Therefore, there is more to life then biological needs and desires.
Humans have only been thrown into the Animal Kingdom to serve a basic purpose for mankind. That's just the way it is. But outside of that, humans are much more complicated than flies. If you put things on a spiritual level, we are in a completely different sphere of existence from them. But for that, you have to believe that the spiritual exists in the first place, and if you look at enough things from enough angles, you might find that it's impossible for life to exist without that. This has been my own conclusion.
Joined: Aug 21, 2005 Posts: 292 Location: I am soo lost
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:05 am Post subject:
life is strange in all meaning but the reasonn we wonder of life is when life gets difficult and thus we wonder about it
we don't wonder about it when we are happy but that is when we are confrotable and thus doesn't want to leave this happy life to wonder about it
that is the meaning of life which is not known to us but which is apart of life
Joined: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 3228 Location: Jack lives here
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:21 am Post subject:
chingu wrote:
Even procreation serves more of a purpose other than to simply procreate. What's the point in having procreation in the first place? Is it really simply to carry on genetic material? What would be the point in that? Animals, outside of humans, procreate in order to carry out a larger purpose. Flies, for example, don't breed and lay eggs just because they want their genetic material to continue onto the next generation. That would be pointless. They breed and lay eggs so that the next generation can carry on with their life's purpose. For flies, that purpose is to live as only they can live, for the purpose of serving a place in nature: wouldn't you agree that one of nature's garbage disposal units serves a great purpose in life? Without that purpose, flies would no longer need to exist, and so they would cease to exist. If the continuation of their genetic material was all there was to it to the meaning of their simple lives, they would continue to exist without purpose. But history and the nature of life contradicts that concept. Therefore, there is more to life then biological needs and desires
im not totally disagreeing with what youre saying. i just want to point out that im not entirely satisfied with what you said about serving a place in nature. So what if flies exist as part of a greater ecological network? why does that network exist? what is its purpose? i dont know myself so im waiting for answers, if any exist. Im not going to seek those answers because my life is perfectly fine without them. If one day i find myself unsatisfied i'll have a squiz around but until then, im good.
edit: i just realised that i kinda repeated what the guy above me wrote
Even procreation serves more of a purpose other than to simply procreate. What's the point in having procreation in the first place? Is it really simply to carry on genetic material? What would be the point in that? Animals, outside of humans, procreate in order to carry out a larger purpose. Flies, for example, don't breed and lay eggs just because they want their genetic material to continue onto the next generation. That would be pointless. They breed and lay eggs so that the next generation can carry on with their life's purpose. For flies, that purpose is to live as only they can live, for the purpose of serving a place in nature: wouldn't you agree that one of nature's garbage disposal units serves a great purpose in life? Without that purpose, flies would no longer need to exist, and so they would cease to exist. If the continuation of their genetic material was all there was to it to the meaning of their simple lives, they would continue to exist without purpose. But history and the nature of life contradicts that concept. Therefore, there is more to life then biological needs and desires
im not totally disagreeing with what youre saying. i just want to point out that im not entirely satisfied with what you said about serving a place in nature. So what if flies exist as part of a greater ecological network? why does that network exist? what is its purpose? i dont know myself so im waiting for answers, if any exist. Im not going to seek those answers because my life is perfectly fine without them. If one day i find myself unsatisfied i'll have a squiz around but until then, im good.
That would've been the next step in my argument once it was addressed. People's minds work linearly for the most part, so it's best to point things out the same way. There's the smaller scheme of things that exist in this world that offer up some clues, and I was pointing out that even the smallest schemes can show that much larger plans exist. And then from there a person might be able to see that there's a lot more going on than what the naked eye can perceive alone; therefore, the idea that life exists simply to procreate is pointless. As small and as incomplete as it may be, even the fact that flies exist for a general purpose in nature is enough to support this argument.
As for seeking, that's something inherit in human nature. For you, you'd like to keep it simple, but you're still curious enough to come in here and read what others might have to say about it. For myself, I don't need all these details. I'm satisfied with just knowing that life exists, and that there's a point to all of it. I have faith in it, so I don't personally question it. But when people ask about it, I'd like to be able to explain my feelings on it well enough to make them think.
Last edited by chingu on Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:46 am; edited 3 times in total
life is strange in all meaning but the reasonn we wonder of life is when life gets difficult and thus we wonder about it
we don't wonder about it when we are happy but that is when we are confrotable and thus doesn't want to leave this happy life to wonder about it
that is the meaning of life which is not known to us but which is apart of life
You're right, when people are happy, they usually just sit back and bask in that warmth without too much thought. It's natural because that's what's considered common sense or even instinct. Even when you don't really understand it, you don't have to as long as you can feel it. It's just like sitting by a fire and enjoying its warmth. You may not understand why it keeps you warm, but it does, and that's enough for you. This is why so many people don't actually search for the meaning of life as much as they seek to feel the meaning of life. They don't need to define it if they can feel it, and people usually feel it in the love they have for one another and the enjoyment they get from being alive in the first place. That's enough meaning for them.
But I disagree that the only time people search for anything is when they're troubled. Why do you think we have curiosity? People are constantly striving for answers, even when they're happy, even when they don't realize they are. The ones that aren't happy are just more passionate about it because they're desperate. That's just survival, survival of the mind and the soul. It's just that some are content to see what falls in their lap as they go along in life while others take on a more active role. But all in all, it's still the same.
Looking at what's already happened in the past and what's presented now are both good ways in finding clues to that answer. Don't you think that if God exists, He would've left things for us to find? Some answers could be staring right at you, but you don't see them unless you search for them first and realize that they are answers. And believe it or not, there are sign posts to direct you. The truth never changes, no matter what a person's perception of it is. Thinking about the way things are and why they are the way they are can sometimes give you more in the way of answers than you might expect.
hey chingu i didn't really want to fight you on this topic considering i have fought many relegious debates considering the majority of my family are religous. but to answer what you said finding clues to gods existence, it can't really be done, sometimes people think they get signs or find artifacts proving gods existence but when it's hard to believe in something you cannot see, hear or touch faith often turns into desperaton and one begins to believe that a hallucination or artifacts are actually signs or obects that great religous signifcance.
and what you said about fly's doesnt really apply if your looking for proof about the deep seeded urge to pass down your genes then look at lions. the alpha male passes down it's genes it also has to defend them from other male lions. if the alpha male is killed by a new male then the new male will kill all the previous offspring then preceed to impregnate the lioness's hence passing down it's genes....... man now that i think about i wanna be lion, think about it all you do is lay around, eat and have sex, while the lioness's do all the work, it'd be awesome _________________ [img:350:100:b9d927e767]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/tehalbino/gaara2.png[/img:b9d927e767]
Joined: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 3228 Location: Jack lives here
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:37 am Post subject:
yeah but lions dont have all kind of things like computers, credit cards, microwavable meals and disposable forks...
i dont think id be satisfied living the life of a lion.
the sex bit would be good though
yeah but if you were a lion you wouldn't know about computers ect, you would just be in your orgy of lioness's _________________ [img:350:100:b9d927e767]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/tehalbino/gaara2.png[/img:b9d927e767]
hey chingu i didn't really want to fight you on this topic considering i have fought many relegious debates considering the majority of my family are religous. but to answer what you said finding clues to gods existence, it can't really be done, sometimes people think they get signs or find artifacts proving gods existence but when it's hard to believe in something you cannot see, hear or touch faith often turns into desperaton and one begins to believe that a hallucination or artifacts are actually signs or obects that great religous signifcance.
I wasn't saying that that these clues were answers to God's existence. I was saying that these clues offer answers to the meaning of life itself and that the spirituality of things are suggested therein. Proof of God's existence comes later for some individuals.
In any case, faith can sometimes turn into desperation, but not always. The same can also be said of people who're atheistic. Often they'll desperately seek out evidence to prove their own faith, but the problem is there's not any irrefutable way they can. All anyone can ever do is seek out evidence that suggests. Not everyone who find what they consider evidence of God's existence is desperate. Quite the opposite, actually.
Happy_Dojo wrote:
and what you said about fly's doesnt really apply if your looking for proof about the deep seeded urge to pass down your genes then look at lions. the alpha male passes down it's genes it also has to defend them from other male lions. if the alpha male is killed by a new male then the new male will kill all the previous offspring then preceed to impregnate the lioness's hence passing down it's genes....... man now that i think about i wanna be lion, think about it all you do is lay around, eat and have sex, while the lioness's do all the work, it'd be awesome
Of course there's instinct, I won't deny that. What I was trying to illustrate is that a lion's sole purpose for its actions can't just be because it's trying to pass on its genetic material. If that was all there was to it, life would be pointless. Why does it have the instinct in the first place? Go on to the next level, you'll realize that the purpose behind a lion's need to be the one to breed is because life in the African wild is hard and requires the strongest necessary to survive. But what would be the point in surviving? For lions, they're an important predator in nature and have a place that only they can serve, the general purpose. And then from there, a person could begin wondering what's the point in this place in nature or even nature in the first place. This is the smaller scheme of things. The larger scheme gets much more complicated.
Then compare a lion to a person. You might find there are far more contradictions than there are similarities.
EDIT: I have more to say on this, but I'm running late for something, so I'll be back later to finish. Ciao for now.
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